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Selective history gets very old from supposed "scholars" as young minds become slaves to it and never learn to think!

Scott Shaver

Absolutely Lydia.

They're still framing and redacting the history today.

They believe in the rights of the unborn but not the living if the narrative of any living departs from the party line.

See if I can get tossed out of SBC Tomorrow for the hat trick..LOL

Scott Shaver


On a slightly sarcastic note: Peter keeps putting up all this excellent historical source material while OTHERS, tell us we're bitter and stuck in the past for discussing history.

What do you make of this?

Scott Shaver

Are Calvinists "bitter" and "stuck" in the past for wanting us to embrace reformed church structures and ecclesiology 400 years old?

They (reformed Calvinists) have no problem with history as long they're the ones telling the story.

SBC "Trads" don't want to even remember history beyond 20 years.

It's insane.

peter lumpkins

OK, I'm bitter, if that's what they think. But I hope they don't hold their breath thinking I'm going to stop pillaging around in Baptists' old forgotten closets. :^)


Scott, I don't think the accusation of 'bitter" carries the weight it used to. It has been so over used that it comes off as a last ditch effort to try and make the other party defensive. If they call me bitter, I usually remind them they forgot "Jezebel" and "pelagian". I mean a false accusation should really carry some punch! :o)

The new favorite word from that movement to describe themselves is "winsome". An odd choice for the manly men of biblical manhood--- but there you are.


There is a huge push to map freedom, free enterprise, etc to Calvinism. It is a horrible reading of history. History is just not that black and white and people were operating within very controlling oppressive religious/ state systems. In that environment any movement toward self government in industry is radical. But still must be approved. They operated more with in a Fascism religious structure.

Agenda driven religious historical scholars bother me the most. They answer the wrong questions to drive their agenda. They are constantly doing this with Calvins Geneva, too.

I honestly believe that the turn toward licentiousness that has come out of these European countries is a direct result of the controlling religious Oppression of so many years. People tend to over correct such things.

Scott Shaver

"Winsome" with the qualifier of "what's left" would be accurate Lydia? ;)

Scott Shaver

Kinda hard to feel spiritual kinship with a Christianity that shackles and imprisons its own. Ask Sir Thomas Moore, Archbishop of Canterbury. Struggled to his death over having Cristians burned at the stake in his zeal against Lutheranism. Human beings just aren't equipped to make that call unless in war or self-defense. Holds equally true as to WHO actually holds the keys to Christ's church.

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