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I doubt that the Lord was "particularly" pleased with that hymn or those who sang it. What love is this?! Such attitude within the born-again-before-faith camp should not have been tolerated then, nor promoted now. Be not deceived - the Lord would never elect such arrogance.

Rick Patrick

Searching for a melody here... I think it works with "O God Our Help in Ages Past," "Amazing Grace" and even the "Gilligan's Island Theme Song."

I just can't figure out which one might be most appropriate. Happy New Year!

dr. james willingham

Funny! I believe in all five points and add Predestination and Reprobation to them, regarding each truth as an invitation, intensely invitational, compelling, engaging, exciting, enthusiastic, the source of the First and Second Great Awakenings and of the launching of the Great Century of Missions as well as the American nation. In fact, I think these truths shall in the end, when understood and applied rightly, will win the whole earth by persuasion for a thousand generations (anywhere from 20,000-900,000 years and trillion or perhaps a quadrillion planets, that is, all the inhabitants thereof. All so God can make a humorous remark to cheer His despairing followers. Rev.7:9. The idea is to cram Heaven with the elect, the redeemed, a number no one can number.....Don't forget Peter, men are crept in unaware whose aim is to drive everything biblical to extremes and hence ridicule, but they shall fail. I have been praying for 40 years for a Third Great Awakening, the beginning of a thousand generations of converts.

Andrew Barker

Rick Patrick, the song follows an 8:6:8:6 meter and will fit any melody of that pattern. Not that it's going to be a great hit in the near future. It's fits what some of our neo-calvinists espouse but it's a bit too frank and to the point! They prefer something a little more oblique like "Man’s response to the gospel is rooted and grounded in the free and unconditional election of God for his own pleasure and glory." It's the same thing really, but it doesn't fit the 8:6:8:6 meter or any other I can think of for that matter!

peter lumpkins

Dr. Willingham,

Were you just referencing the 'doctrines of grace' in "these things" or are you suggesting the 'doctrines of grace' are well represented in the hymn lines?

And I'd have to defer from your excited optimism concerning the "whole earth" being won "by persuasion," a deference based upon a broad reading of the NT.

Lord bless...

Bill Mac

Andrew: Could you be specific? Who do you think espouses the views in that vile hymn?


The "comments" and the "words in the song" must be responded to by the Pope in Louisville, Ky. I can't wait for his rationalization of these comments. Will he simply say "This happened before I got here?"......when, in fact, his unchecked beliefs bring on these things....

Bill Mac

Casey: I think you need to read the post more carefully.


Kent, Do you honestly take from that article that Dr. George was advocating for the theology of the hymn? Good grief.

Andrew Barker

Bill Mac: No I'm not going to be specific! Work it out for yourself. But do you know of those who insist that God chooses his elect and by default those who are non-elect? Have you heard 'teachers' who suggest that God gets glory from justly and rightly condemning those whom HE determined beforehand would not be part of 'the elect'? I would suggest they might just be singing from this song sheet.

Dr. Willingham: You seem to be full of seasonal cheer in your remarks although I don't quite get your sense of 'humour'?! Neither do I get your concept that God is cramming the elect in!? Has he not gone to prepare a place for us? Please don't say you think God is skimping on the accommodation!

Dustin Germain

I also once heard an old arminian ditty

"I'll choose God if i want
With pulled-up bootstraps you see
Because the one thing standing between myself
and hell
is always going to be me"*1

1. Also a particular Church

Scott Shaver

I'm a little more interested in the details of cosmic evangelism to a "quadrillion planets".

peter lumpkins

Since Dustin interjected a sort of folklore into the thread here, for those interested, I wrote a song several years ago entitled “A Five Point Calvinist in a One Point Church.” Enjoy...

Bill Mac

Andrew: I didn't think you would. I don't need to work it out. I didn't make the accusation.


Sorry guys but the hymn is the logical conclusion of Calvinism no matter how nice or flowery one talks about "grace" and "sovereignty". Those are nice words defined to mean SOME are randomly chosen before Adam sinned for salvation. Calvinists just don't like it when we take their doctrine to its logical conclusions.


No Lydia, that's not the logical conclusion.
That may be your logical conclusion.
Because you reject Reformed Doctrine.
And I suspect don't understand it.......By faith
I wrote "suspect" after all,I don't know you.
As Bill said,Its a vile hymn.


"I have been praying for 40 years for a Third Great Awakening, the beginning of a thousand generations of converts."

Brother Willingham - What has been said about the weather might be said about revival: everybody talks about it, but nobody does anything. Those who think sovereign God will just show up with an awakening when it's time should look more closely at 2 Chronicles 7:14. The Word doesn't say "If God ...", it says "If my people ..." God's people have a major role to spark revival in the church and spiritual awakening in the land, but I don't see them moving in that direction. It's good that you are praying - the multitude of American Christians are satisfied to live without revival it appears. As a student of past revivals/awakenings, you know that they started when a spirit of (genuine) prayer flowed through the church. I guess things haven't got desperate enough in America for that to happen yet.


"That may be your logical conclusion.
Because you reject Reformed Doctrine.
And I suspect don't understand it.......By faith
I wrote "suspect" after all,I don't know you."

Eric, I "suspect" you are right that I do not understand it. I actually tried for quite a while but do not do circular reasoning or cognitive dissonance well at all. I am also not big into the guru thing. I also think God never intended it to be so complicated with all kinds of graces, wills, etc. One can actually be a peasant and not only be wise but have the indwelling Holy Spirit. Imagine that.

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