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peter lumpkins


Under no circumstances will comments be posted--pro or con--pertaining to the Ergun Caner discussion. I refuse to rehash that debate, refusing moreover to feed the insatiable appetite James White has for chewing on a rotten piece of meat. If you mention the Caners, don't expect the comment to go anywhere but the trash...


hey Peter, sounds like you and this joker have some serious beef - hope you get it worked out...

you said " I’ll bet I can take James White’s junior-high, snickering, giggling, “here’s Lumpy” type of juvenile ridicule when he refers to me longer than he can take my serious critiques of his words."

You did type out all a bunch of "uhs" a few days ago when quoting him - thought it was kind of juvenile of you...don't stoop man!

and you want him to come here, but you won't go there? why is that? like a homefield advantage type thing? - I mean if he's a terrible debater who employs all sorts of fallacies, maybe it would be awesome to intellectually destroy him on his own show...


I think you and Mr. White have too much time on your hands.

peter lumpkins


Thanks. Well, funny or not, my typing the "uhs" and other sounds was not intended to make White look bad nor certainly to reflect a similar juvenile behavior. Including "uhs" and pauses in transcribing voice to written medium is standard protocol so far as I know.

I thought I made it pretty clear in another comment (it's another thread, however), I really have little desire to have a personal one-on-one with White. I've been explicitly called a liar, a deceiver, a dishonest man who has absolutely no regard for the truth so many times by White I stopped counting--all documentable by the way. White's even questioned if I am even a redeemed man. So, Deakon, I don't think I'll be stepping up on the platform with him anytime soon...

Adam Pace

You boys need to clean this up. If I'm a lost person reading this mess I'd run from the church as fast as I could. It is contrary to the spirit of Christ to talk to each other this way, especially in full view of the entire world. Do you care more about winning points against each other or loving each other? Loving the lost? Somebody needs to take the high road and let this stuff go.

peter lumpkins


Thanks. I suggest you not waste your time reading and find something more edifying to do. Lord bless...

peter lumpkins

Hi Adam,

Sorry, but this blog is not a church. Nor have I written anything on this site, including this post, I'd fear for a lost person to see. I've done nothing other than answer James White's open invitation to me. And, I'll suggest to you as I've suggested to others: the moment you find this post or any I write unworthy of your attention, the most edifying thing you can do for your soul is not stop and type out a complaint on a keyboard or preach me a sermonette. Rather the best thing you can do for yourself, for me, for the body of Christ, is a) stop reading; b) pray for me. Hope this helps...


Seriously, both of you remind me of junior high school.

Andrew Barker

Deakon, John, Adam;

It's not my place to act in defence of Peter, I think he's capable of looking after himself, but I would ask you this question. Do you apply yourselves with the same rigorous criticism on James White's blog as you seem free to do so on this one? I trust you do.

For my part, I am still waiting to receive a copy of Peter's booklet, ( all 32, or is 44 pages of it, "never mind the quality feel the width" ;) ) at which point I will come back to him with my comments. I'm not expecting to find too much to surprise me, but you never know. But I doubt I'll be using the 'h' word. And if I do disagree, I expect to receive a forthright but honest response from him for any criticism I make.

So let's be a bit more open here than perhaps you are being? You disagree primarily because you are of a Calvinist/Reformed persuasion and commenting on behaviour is easier than tackling the substance of his book?

I cannot find anything of substance from James White to back up his criticism of Peter's book. If you can find it or site where Peter has factually got Calvinism wrong, let me know then I can bear it in mind while I'm reading it.

If I've got you all wrong, my apologies in advance .......

Posted by: Andrew Barker


Peter, OT somebody needs to straighten out Stetzer and his guest because it looks to me like they pretty much admit that sometimes Calvinists allow their theology to get in the way of evangelism! Since we're told over and over that's a lie because everybody knows that Calvinists are the bestest evangelists in the world I expect the blogosphere to blow up any moment now denouncing this Stetzer latest blog post!

Here's a quote:

But there are others in the Reformed/Calvinistic camp who want to see their churches grow. They're preaching the Gospel every Sunday in half-empty auditoriums built in cities where people need to hear the truth of Jesus. They're afraid to violate their theology, so they don't formulate a strategy to get the Gospel out to people who need to hear it. They don't mobilize their people for mission. Their belt is missing some key tools, like mine was

Tim Bushong


I'm with Adam on this one- this has gone on long enough. Encouraging you to simply obey Jesus:

“Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift." (Matt.5:23-24)

As "Deakon" said earlier: "... if he's a terrible debater who employs all sorts of fallacies, maybe it would be awesome to intellectually destroy him on his own show"

It would be totally awesome- it sounds like a fair offer from James White, and you would both be on-the-record for all to hear.

Wyman Richardson


Respectfully, you and James White have reached a very unhealthy point in this exchange. I know, I know: then don't read it. That's fair enough and duly noted. But, honestly, the whole tone of these posts between you guys is deeply saddening and, oddly, ironically similar. It just looks ugly.

From one follower of Jesus to another, may I suggest that you unplug, take a long walk, and back away a bit from this until a calmer spirit prevails. White should do the same.

And I know - no need to say it: I'm doing the same.

Wyman Richardson


Adam, The "world" already knows we don't fool them, only our own. The worst thing we do is the pretend we are who we aren't to the world. It is a lot like the SGM lawsuit....who are we kidding? Not the world, that is for sure.


Peter, it occurred to me that it is perfectly okay for James White to rattle on and on and on about you, and others and these debate-encouragers of his seem so excited about you going there--however.... Since I do not frequent his spew and splatter show after hearing some spew a few years back, I wonder if these same folks like JD Hall and others White-backers are encouraging the self-professing great and powerful debater to come here and open his banter box? if not, maybe they should try harassing him a bit...

I get so tired of the self-righteous admonishments being thrown in one direction. it is tiring. and so so silly. it's time for JW to grow up and put on his big-boy trousers and see if he can write a coherent word to defend his blather and bluster. until he is able to come here, which I highly doubt he is, he needs to put his little white glove back into his little boy knickers and hush.


Mr. Lumpkins,
Thank you for your advice. Respectfully sir, I encourage you to consider your condescending attitude in general towards commenters who may not rally around your comments or observations. Have a blessed Lord's Day!


Typical Calvinist schemes - bully others, initiate the mean-spiritedness, arrogance and condescension and then ratchet up the debate until they can accuse both sides of being in error. What a bunch of spineless men. And to those who are worried about the lost seeing this ... why would all of you Calvinists be worried about this? Isn't the eternal destiny of every soul fore-ordained by a deterministic "god"?


Ryan... well, now, that is the 64,000 dollar question, isn't it?

Alex Guggenheim

I cannot commend Peter Lumpkins enough, here, for demonstrating how one rebutts their brother in the Lord who has chosen to go beyond debate but into fallacious forms of argumentation. Those of you complaining appear to misunderstand what PL is bringing to light which is not merely contextual errors but White's absurdities.

Scott Alt

To those who are accusing Peter Lumpkins of incivility here:

Peter Lumpkins illustrates the second of two schools of thought when it comes to James White: (1) ignore him; (2) be fierce and firm in striking back.

The first school of thought says that James White wants the attention, and even negative attention feeds the beast. Don't give him what he wants. But White still comes round on regular occasions to wonder why certain individuals "aren't answering his questions" or "aren't brave enough to debate him."

The second, Howard Beale, school of thought says there comes a time when you've got to tell the schoolyard bully to cut the crap.



With your 12:24 remark to Peter, how is it possible that you can insult and wish somebody blessings and expect us to recoginize authenticity in that remark?

Calvinist and Christians in the SBC have been accusing each other as being Heretics in an attempt to change or convert each other.

Stealth Calvinist who embrace some or all POINTS of TULIP are going into churches not revealing themselves as Calvinist. Even the Reformed Calvinist are choosing to drop Calvinist from their title, when they should be openly disclosing to church elders, the level of Calvinism they embrace.

There are several levels of Calvinism that makes it impossible for Calvinist to come up with a concensus to what they believe.

Can you answer this question.
The very fact that within the Calvinist School there are some that refer to some Points of TULIP as being authenticated by scriptures and some Calvinist refer to all Points of TULIP, doesn't this put Calvinist at risk of questioning each others belief, of which parts of the Bible/TULIP is "Truth" and which parts aren't?

Lastly, if Christian Professors are being removed from SBC Seminaries simply because they don't accept Calvinism then those that are responsible for removing those Professors need to be removed from the leadership positions of the SBC and removed completely out of SBC Seminaries.


One reason I read this blog is my interest in the current debate within the Baptist Church over Calvinism.
As you know I am reformed, so I have an interest. I also listen to James White from time to time.
I would also implore you, brother, to seek reconciliation with James White. I assume he (or his staff) is also reading this, so this same comment goes to him as well. I would post on his site but don’t think he allows comments.
I hope that James White has someone in his wings that can challenge and correct him on his continued “disrespect” towards you. What comes to mind is referring to you as “petey”. (after listening to his podcast) I am offended at that, considering his standing as an active Elder. (I should say that I’m assuming he is making fun of you and that this isn’t a recognized nick name). Even assuming the worst…that you are his enemy, we have clear biblical instruction on how to relate to our enemies Luke 6:35. That said, I don’t think you are his enemy when you are both “in Christ”.

I would ask you to reconsider your response to Adam. You might also consider this a “sermonette”, I will not fault you for thinking that. I will encourage you to think about this and the other comments about coming to peace with White, thru the lens of Scripture. I trust that your heart is already inclined to be at peace with all men.

I will commend you for allowing post like mine thru your site, some other bloggers would not forward comments which have an air of criticism. Some other bloggers will not even open the comments section to allow any comments or rebuttals to their post.

At this time I have more interest in hearing that you and James have reconciled, confessed any sins towards one another, and have used this as an opportunity to grow in Christ rather than hearing you “debate” James White.

I do hope that James White has a bigger interest in reaching out to you for reconciliation before he debates you. I also encourage you to reach out to him (in private) for reconciliation.

I think you have made your position clear and I’m not looking for a response to this. Use it as another nudge in a direction.

John 13:34 A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

1 john 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen.

1 Cor 13:1-13If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing. Love is patient and kind; love does not envy or boast; it is not arrogant or rude. It does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; ...

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil.

peter lumpkins


Sorry I have not been active. I've been gone most of the day but was able to pop in a couple of times to approve some comments. I've got a few. But have to run and pick up hun at airport...

As I privately predicted, James White's support base came to his aid, acting as ambassadors to persuade me, contra my clear words, to "debate" him. I don't have it in me to hunt for clearer words than I've already written. Even so, I'm going to say it once again and then give his convoy instructions on how to accept my words whether they understand them or not. Here goes:

I remain unmoved...utterly absent...devoid of all desire...completely convinced...with not an iota of doubt...forged and fixed...happy as a full pig about my staying put right where I'm at and answering those issues and criticisms I think need to be addressed which James White brings up on his blog. What part of that is unclear I can't begin to know. Hence, there is nothing...nothing...N-O-T-H-I-N-G any James White supporter can say, or even James White himself can say, which will affect either where or when or how or on what topic I take my stand.

Now James White and/or his supporters are free to interpret my stand anyway they wish. They can assert I am scared to face James White; they can assert I lack honor; they can assert I have no ability; they can assert I'm smart; they can assert I'm dumb; they can assert non-Reformed views just can't match up; they can assert ad nauseam ad infinitum to their heart's desire all they wish about what my decision means. I think that's swell.

But know none of their barbed complaints move me. I will not defer from my course. I decide what I address. I decide when I address it. I decide in which available venue I'll address it. And, I don't need James White's permission or blessing.

Finally, it's already been rightly pointed out that James White is the one that started this. I most certainly didn't. Period. And, the ridiculous nonsense logged by some on this thread implying either I just need to leave James White alone or worse condemns me for answering White's absurd assertions only makes me dig my heels farther down into the dirt.

And please know, if James White wants to critique the J316 Conference, I think he has every right to do so. And, he put it on his blog. But I also have every right--and duty when he slurs, mocks, ridicules, and in some cases, condemns as heretics, Southern Baptist scholars, pastors, and people--to post a correction on my blog, the very same venue White used to offer his critique. But upon my using the same venue he employs, White calls "foul ball!" "You must meet me. You must call me. You must debate me." Yeah...right...

Truth be told, sometimes I get the eery feeling either I'm from another planet or White and his supporters are.

Now here's my instructions to all of James White's advocates and sympathizers for future logons. Ready? Here goes:

Since I've been clear I'm making my stand here and will not defer to James White's preferable venue to address his horrendous, emotionally-driven rhetorical "stretches" among many other debate tricks he often employs, and since James White employs his blog to offer those criticisms I find needful to address and therefore will address them on my site, do not log back on here again and make the same, redundant comment about switching to James White's preferable venue

I've given many of you guys lots of space to spew not only some frustrated emotion, but space to try and persuade me to change my mind on the above. The time has come to drop it. Period. That part of the exchange is over.

peter lumpkins


You simply haven't a single clue what's transpired. I appreciate your words, but you're too much in the dark about this to fully appreciate it. This is not simply about personal offense which is how your framing your counsel and corrective. It's about right and wrong. If you think I'm biblically disengaged about this, that's your privilege. But I remain unmoved.


Dear Mark,
I am responding top your earlier post directed at me. One of the problems with what is written in black and white is it does not covey intent not emotion. That leaves the reader to interpret and often incorrectly. I did not insult Peter Lumpkins by suggesting he not be so condescending to those who differ. It was just a brotherly encouragement. I have read Peter for years and have never commented till now. I have great respect for his faith and immense writing skills and ability to communicate. Nor did I insult him by wishing him a blessed Lord's Day. I truly desire him to feel God's joy and power in the pulpit and receive the blessings from exercising his gifts and glorifying God. I am sure he wishes me the same. (Sunday is my first day retired from the pastorate in 41 years of ministry.) You proceeded sir to discuss the debate of with Calvinists. I did not reveal my theological leanings nor am embroiled in such a debate, nor will I in the future. I don't follow James White not read his blog. My encouragement to you is not to read in to things, and don't be so quick to assign motives and judgments. And, I truly wish you and all the readers a most blessed Lord's day, a harvest of souls and the joy from preaching God's word.



Being a Pastor for 41 years is quite an achievement.

You were critical toward Peter of having an attitude toward people who didn't think like him or his Ideology. Peter is challenging abusive tactics that some Leaders and Pastors in the SBC are Practicing. Much of the dialogue that is being debated in this site are from people that simply support the abusers because their Theology lines up with their own.

He gives the opportunity for countering views to express why they support these abusers and then states his own.

Maybe you haven't seen the magnitude of strife in the SBC that is based on the Doctrinal Indifference among the Biblical Academics, that is causing church splits.

This site challenges and raises concern of the Un-Christ-Like abuse that Stealth Calvinist are Practicing on unsuspecting Christian Churches within the SBC, who don't embrace TULIP.

This site also addresses Calvinist Leadership in SBC Seminaries who are weeding out Christian Professors and replacing them with Calvinist.

This site also challenges the Heretic Rhetoric that Calvinist and Christians are practicing on each other, simply based on Biblical interpretations.

As for people rallying around him, Peter has been aggressive in wanting unity to exist in the SBC.

I have challenged Peter raising doubt that unity between Christians and Calvinist is possible. I have even suggested that Christians and Calvinist in the SBC need to split, which he aggressively rebuked my suggestion wanting the Rich History in the SBC to be preserved.

My former Stealth Pastor split churches back to back in the first 2 Churches he was a Pastor, aggressively staying within the perimeters of TULIP.
(he was 40 when he started Pastoring and he is 45 now)

peter lumpkins

Hi Mark,

Here is the truth as I see it: few I know have grasped the breadth of my general purpose here than you in what you've just expressed to John not to mention in the short time (presumably) you've been on this site. I would count it a senseless endeavor to try and improve upon it myself.

Further, so unlike many others I've engaged through the years when I found myself challenging a certain proposition they might offer, you did not angrily or resentfully take your marbles and go play elsewhere. Instead you acknowledged my position without necessarily giving up ground of your own, setting the mark for a genuine exchange of ideas from which we may both gather from each other greater enlightenment for our minds and food for our souls.

Indeed it is such an environment which nurtures authentic conversation without sacrificing vigorous exchange of varying ideas. And, this remains almost opposite the environment called for by many here generally and, if I may, James White particularly, where "debate" seems to be the main arena to determine truth. "Debate me!" is the clear and present purpose we see coming through the present lens. Unfortunately, "debate" is, like it or not, more about competition than it is about conversation; more about winning than about wisdom; more about who lost the debate than what was learned from a dialog. I'm sorry. Something seems to me to be upside-down in a world like that...

Thanks gain Mark. You've made my Sunday afternoon, brother...


Peter, read something attributed to Aristotle today:
"the only way to avoid criticism:
do nothing
say nothing
be nothing." ~Aristotle
Thank you for doing something, saying something, and being who you are in Christ. selahV

peter lumpkins


Thanks my sister. I receive the encouragement, and will very much enjoy the encouragement...

Lord bless...



Thanks for the feedback.

John graciously expressed his views. (along with the rest of us) I did in fact feel he was insinuating a lack of balance in this site, which I disagree.

I just thought his timing was off in how he was being a little critical and spreading blessing at the same time.

I except the his correction in that I shouldn't jump to conclusions.


Peter...be strong.
I know the story about how Docktor Jimmy attacked two unnamed men for years in this EXACT fashion. Sending his minion to do his bidding and publicly belittling and them at every turn. James White is the Reformed Ric Flair. He is a cartoon-character of a man. When these two unnamed men finally had enough and agreed to the debate he was screaming for...he backed down and made that "Hominah" sound like Ralph Cramden used to make. Doktor Jimmy is an excruciatingly insecure man who needs to keep screaming and yelling and bellowing in order to shout down the voices of the demons in his head.
His goal is to get his name mentioned on YOUR blog because your following is so much larger. If he ever wants to leave the basement bunker and broadcast on a real radio station...he'll need a following. And since only people in dire need of a cult leader follow Her Doktor, he has to try to swipe a few of yours.
You're a good man Peter...I hope he comes here and gets waxed. But his legendary cowardice precludes that.


"I'm a peace loving guy. I‘m actually not internally wired for conflict." Pppppssssshshhhhhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...

peter lumpkins

Hi "Doug"

Well, I had to shorten your laugh abit. Hope you don't mind. Glad to accommodate you, though...

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