A Conversation on Gluttony: Part I by Mary England

So here we are at your (fill in state name) convention and as sure as the sun sets in the west someone is going to really show deem ol persnickety teatotelers a thing or two about a thing or two!  They are going to go the floor and present a motion on gluttony.  Take that you old dudes, you! “If we can’t have our alcohol you can’t have your Golden Corral!”  They are gonna pull out the scales and the measuring tapes to show just who the real sinners are in this here room.  They can tell by lookin’ at ya, don’t ya know.  You had better hit your knees in repentance while handing over the keys to these new young leaders so they can take over your positions and offices with their ipods, torn jeans and space age frappachino machines  >>>

SBC Tomorrow welcomes Mary England as Guest Contributor* 

Consider this probable exchange:

Mary:  So, why a resolution on gluttony?

Skippy:  Those hypocrites are always trying to pass resolutions on drinking so we wanted to expose them for the sinners they are.

Mary:   So this is a resolution about getting back at somebody?

Skippy:  No it’s about exposing the hypocrites.

Mary:  How do you know they’re hypocrites?

Skippy:  Just lookin at ‘em you can tell they’re gluttons.

Mary:  Just by looking at them you can tell they’re gluttons?

Skippy:  Look how fat they are.  Of course they’re gluttons!

What is gluttony?  To be more specific what is the biblical definition of gluttony? And if a person is overweight does that automatically indicate they are gluttons?  When people throw out the word “gluttony” are they following the biblical definition or a definition perhaps not found in Scripture?  Is gluttony about the types and amounts of food one eats or is it something about more than just food? Let's consider an understanding of gluttony we find on the pages of Scripture.

In the Bible, especially in the Old Testament, we are warned against gluttony.  For example, in Proverbs 23, we are instructed “do not mix with winebibbers, or with gluttonous eaters of meat; for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty,” (v. 20- 21) and to “put a knife to your throat if you are a man given to appetite.” (v. 2).  Further, Proverbs 28:7 states “a companion of gluttons shames his father.”  As stated in Deuteronomy 21:18-21 under the law, a stubborn and rebellious son who was a “glutton and a drunkard” was to be put to death.

One of the primary New Testament examples of gluttony is found in the parable of the prodigal son, who “wasted his possessions with prodigal living”  (Luke 15:13).  The term “prodigal living” from the NKJV is variously translated as “riotous living” (KJV), “loose living” (NASB), “reckless living” (ESV), and “wild living” (NIV).  Jesus, because he ate dinner with tax collectors and sinners, was falsely accused of being “a glutton and a winebibber”  (Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:34).

When these verses are put together and read in their context, it is clear that the biblical concern with gluttony is not simply a warning against overeating.  Rather a glutton is someone who leads a lifestyle of regular and consistent excess in every aspect of life.  Such a person overeats, overdrinks, and is sexually promiscuous.  This is why anyone who is described as a “glutton” is also said to be a “drunkard” or a “winebibber.” 

When we look at the original languages behind the English translations, we find the same thing.  The Hebrew word for “glutton” in Proverbs 23:21 is zalal, which literally means “to shake” or “to quake” and describes someone who is “loose morally, worthless, or prodigal.”  The Hebrew word for “appetite” in Proverbs 23:2 is the Hebrew word nephesh, which refers to “any appetite” and is synonymous with “greed and lust.”  The New Testament word “prodigal” from Jesus’ parable is the Greek word asotos, which means “excess and riot” and the word “glutton” used by Jesus’ accusers was the Greek word phagos, meaning “one given to appetite.”  In the Bible, a glutton is a generally morally reprehensible person whose life is characterized by wasteful and excessive indulgence.

Therefore, the modern tendency to define gluttony in a narrow sense, restricted only to eating, is biblically wrong and misleading.  Moreover, to use this fabricated definition as an insult to hurl at someone deemed “overweight” (and thus a sinful “glutton”) is not only fallacious but also dishonest and mean.  And finally, when such a stigma is thrown at others in an attempt to justify one’s own moral failures concerning alcohol, such conduct is particularly repugnant.

Mary England

Part II may be found here

 

*Mary England is a Southern Baptist christian living in the midwest with her husband and three teenagers. She and her family are long-time members of a Southern Baptist church and have served their church and Lord in many roles throughout the years. Mary is a frequent commenter on SBC Tomorrow and is well respected for her keen insight into aggressive Calvinism as well as other vital issues facing the Southern Baptist Convention 

Comments

[volfan007]

Thanks, Mary, for this very insightful post. You nailed ye olde nail squarely on the olde head.

You know, whenever people start to try to justify foolish behavior, and even sinful behavior, then the more immature bring out the old "Well, why get onto me, when he's doing this" arguement. It reminds me of two, eight year olds, trying to justify their bad behavior by claiming that the other one is worse than they are! lol

Also, some of these young'un's, who are making such a big, big deal about the size of older Pastors, better just hold off on their condemnation. One day, after they've lived for a little while, their bodies will start changing, too! When I got married, as a 20 something, I wieghed 175 lbs and stood at nearly 6'2" tall. I could eat anything, and as much as I wanted. I stayed at that weight for years before marriage. But then, age takes it's affect on the person. And, even my "watch what you eat, be healthy" brother has started to get "pudgy." Also, a good, Pastor friend of mine, who was totally into lifting wieghts and working out, who said that he was always gone stay in tip top shape...has started getting the mid life sprawl. lol

David

[Mary]

David, thanks.

I'm working on part II which will address the points you've made. Some of these young guys are in for a rude awakening if they think they will be able to do exactly what they're doing now and continue to get the same results. Our bodies are not wired that way.

[David R. Brumbelow]

Mary,
A good, needed article. Also an example of taking Scripture seriously.

I look forward to a second helping.
David R. Brumbelow

[boB Cleveland]

As my pastor has said, more than once: "If you're driving on a two lane road and see a driver coming at you, would you rather he be drunk, or fat?"

I'm not a pastor, I don't drink, but I am fat. My choice is obvious.

[Jason]

In Luke 15:13 the word redndered "reckless/loose/etc..." particularly refers to, in this context, sexual activity and not gluttony.

The greek words that you mention as "glutton" is not found in Luke 15:1-2 but rather it is the greek verb which means simply "to eat with" (esthio)(I dont think the Pharisees and scribes were accusing Jesus of gluttony, but rather having association with sinners.

But I'm rather confused with this post. Are you arguing that gluttony is not a sin but alcohol is? Let me be clear, I am not pro-alcohol and I am not defending it in any way, but I would just like some more clarification.

[Scott]

I am trying to understand your point. If overeating is lumped in with overdrinking and promiscuity, then it would be considered a sin would it not? Also, for a person to be gluttonous, would they have to be guilty of all three? Or is it possible that a person lives in a gluttonous manner when they are sexually promiscuous, drunk, or a consistent overeater.

I also believe there is a bit of irony in the way that our friends who argue for total abstinence treat the issue of overeating. I have seen people argue that one sip of alcohol makes one guilty of the sin of drunkenness, but that one has to eat to the point of throwing up and then eat some more to be guilty of the sin of gluttonous overeating. The inconsistency needs to be addressed.

One other point that is in order is the characterizing of Christians who believe that Scripture teaches that the moderate use of alcohol is allowed as having a "moral failure." If we want to talk about something that is "dishonest" and "mean," let's talk about this characterization. There are brothers and sisters who have a sincere biblical conviction that they are allowed to enjoy alcohol in moderation. Is their enjoying freedom that they believe Scripture gives them a "moral failure?"

[Max]

Great perspective on gluttony, Mary!

Scripture is clear that believers are to live in moderation and temperance. To not live that way, is rebellion. Rebellion is sin.

In the land of plenty, Americans (including American Christians) have plenty of opportunities to be undisciplined gluttons. From food to drink, football to baseball, Arminianism to Calvinism ... we can partake of anything in an unhealthy excess.

"Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand." (Phil 4:5)

May all men know us as being excessive only in our faith and service to the Lord. He is at hand.

[peter lumpkins]

Jason,

I'm not sure your point. The word "riotous" does not refer necessarily to sexual activity in this context--at least not exclusively so albeit the elder brother mentions "harlots" in v.30. The point appears strongly to be the younger brother expended his inheritance through "riotous" living, a term almost all parties agree means "wasteful" "reckless" or "prodigal" and the like without restricting it to sexual over-indulgence.

In fact, Kittel says,

The original sense is “incurable”; then we have the ideas of dissipation, gluttony, voluptuousness, and indiscipline. The only OT instances are Prov. 7:11 and 28:7. The reference in Lk. 15:7 is to the prodigal’s life of dissipation..."

Hence, while hanging with harlots may have been, in part, part of the the prodigal's unholy habit, it cannot be left there. His entire spending spree of excess is the perfect picture of the worthless glutton in the OT.

I'm not Mary, but I don't think she's arguing gluttony is not sin. Instead she's challenging the popular notion that gluttony may be simplistically reduced to suggesting that "a glutton is a person who eats too much."

With that, I am...
Peter

[peter lumpkins]

Scott,

"I also believe there is a bit of irony in the way that our friends who argue for total abstinence treat the issue of overeating. I have seen people argue that one sip of alcohol makes one guilty of the sin of drunkenness, but that one has to eat to the point of throwing up and then eat some more to be guilty of the sin of gluttonous overeating. The inconsistency needs to be addressed."

Well, my brother Scott, you going to have to be specific if your irony gets some teeth. To my knowledge, no one here has ever argued the point the way you frame it that a "single sip of alcohol makes one guilty of the sin of drunkenness" nor that one has to eat to the "point of throwing up and then eat some more" to be guilty of the sin of gluttonous overeating.

I wrote a 176 page book and never argued for abstinence in such terms. Even more, David Brumbelow's new book just published by Free Church Press entitled Ancient Wine & the Bible: the Case for Abstinence never frames his case in the way you suggest (it's over 300 pages by the way).

Hence, so far as "inconsistency" is concerned, I'm afraid I haven't a clue toward what you refer.

With that, I am...
Peter

[Mary]

I'm an ipod so forgive typos.

Gluttony is sin. Gluttony is not just eating to excess though eating can br part of it. Gluttony is a lifestyle of excess. It is not a word to be thrown about as lightly as it is. It is a serious deep moral failing. I think the Bible teaches it is a very depraved lifestyle.

No one can look at a person's waist line and declare that person a glutton. The Pharisee's didn't look at Jesus, see a fat person and call him a glutton. The Pharisee's looked at Jesus hanging out with sinners who wers living a depraved lifestyle.

It is an arrogant prideful atitude to look at anyone who is overweight and decide they must be downing ten Big Macs every day. There are reasons why that's not true, I'll be showing you that in Part II, and to try to use the Bible to attack people as gluttons is sin in itself since the Biblical definition of gluttony doesn't mean one who is overweight.

[Scott]

Mary, you're typing on an iPod? Do you also have torn jeans and a space age frappacino machine?

[Mary]

Scott, don't tell the kids I snatched one of their ipods. No torn jeans but I still have a pair of acid washed jeans from the 80's, does that make me cool? And no frappacino, not even a Mr. Coffee - not one Coffee addict in our house. I will warn you to stay away from my stash of Milanos.

[volfan007]

Do yall remember the scene in "Elf" where he came running into the office shouting, "I'm in love...I'm in love...I'm in love; and I dont care who knows it!" lol

Well, I'm shouting, "I'm fat...I'm fat...I'm fat; and I dont care who doesnt like it!" lol

David

[Ron Hale]

Mary,

After reading the following scriptures, I determined to always speak of my elders with terms of respect and endearment ...

2 Kings 2:23-24
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking up the path, some small boys came out of the city and harassed him, chanting, "Go up, baldy! Go up, baldy!"

24 He turned around, looked at them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and mauled 42 of the youths.

:)

[Bob Hadley]

Ron... its getting harder and harder for you to find ELDERS ain't it???

LOL

><>"

[Ron Hale]

Bob ... watch out for the she-Bears today!

[lmalone]

The research on fat is becoming more and more amazing. In fact, in certain metabolisms, the harder you work to lose weight, the harder the body tries to hold on to it. That is why most people who lose weight gain back more, eventually.

I can remember reading something a while back and they showed some old pictures of Irish people who were "starving" during the potato famine and they were heavy!

What is even more interesting is that at some points in history it was a sign of prosperity and sexiness to have some weight. Rubenesque comes to mind. Could it be that so many young pastors are overconcerned with worldly matters when it comes to this issue?

I know one mega church that put their choir director on probation to lose 40 lbs or he could not go on stage. No fat people allowed on stage.

[peter lumpkins]

Imalone,

I believe it. What a hoot.

With that, I am...
Peter

[Matt]

Peter,

"To my knowledge, no one here has ever argued the point the way you frame it that a "single sip of alcohol makes one guilty of the sin of drunkenness"

David Worley has done this at SBC Voices on several occasions.

[peter lumpkins]

Well, Matt, I don't have the first clue how your bit of info is applicable to my quoted words.

With that, I am...
Peter

[volfan007]

Matt,

What I really said was that drinking alcohol is foolish, and getting drunk on alcohol is sin.

David

[peter lumpkins]

David,

My brother, I have little doubt that you stated exactly your point in the terms you mention. Far too often many fail to read the precise words people write and hence end up drawing horribly wrong inferences.

Grace, brother.

With that, I am...
Peter

[Ron Phillips, Sr.]

David and Peter,

I'm sure Matt will happily document the multiple occasions with links where David stated that a "single sip of alcohol makes one guilty of the sin of drunkenness." (Emphasis mine.) If not, he should apologize.

Blessings,

Ron P.

[Mary]

Ron Hale, sometimes I think I understand what Nehemiah was feeling when he said:

"So I contended with them and cursed them, struck some of them and pulled out their hair, ....."

Nehemiah 13:25

[Mary]

I'm not really sure how much creditability one can give a site where we see "Harry Potter good, Veggie Tales bad" and "Yeah, it's totally ok that Driscoll claims Jesus gives him Porn o Vision, we totally believe Porn O graphic visions are biblical and you should be embarassed you don't believe it too!"

[peter lumpkins]

Ron,

Unfortunately, my brother, like many times before in my exchanges with several at SBCV, I'm afraid properly citing sources from which they infer their conclusions hardly ever occurs to them.

With that, I am...
Peter

[volfan007]

All I'm saying is that I believe...after much, much study on this subject...I believe that drinking fermented wine is a foolish endeavor, according to several passages in Proverbs. I believe I have consistently stated that, too. That its foolish to play around with something like fermented wine.

I do not believe that its a sin to drink one sip....otherwise, we'd have to throw out our Nyquil, and we would never be able to drink anything with alcohol for medicinal purposes.

But, to get high on whiskey, beer, etc is most certainly a sin, according to Ephesians.

So, I hope this clears my position up, since Matt seems to be so interested in what I believe about alcohol. And, if this Matt is Matt Svoboda, then he and I have had some long conversations on alcohol use in the past. He drinks alcohol and thinks its fine to do so. I have tried to change his mind.

David

[Max]

Mary - I do believe that the verse you quoted from Nehemiah would preach!

David - From a close encounter with a YRR church in my area, I learned from that experience that a lot of these young folks take their lead from Acts 29 when it comes to taking a position on alcohol consumption. Driscoll speaks about a closed hand stance on "primary" issues (e.g., reformed theology), with no wavering from such doctrine. On the other hand, Driscoll allows for an open hand on "secondary issues" when it comes to Christian liberties(e.g., alcohol).

This open/closed hand approach to ministry and witness can sure mess with a young mind. Call me old school, I guess, but Christ changed my mind on alcohol when he extended an open hand to me. It's not a matter of "I get to" ... I don't want to!