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boB Cleveland

Thanks for posting this.

The young man who spoke first sounds exactly like a man I counseled with at a Bill Glass Crusade some years ago .. he was Youth and Music Minister at a Baptist Church and learned he'd never been born again. As a Presbyterian layman, I was able to share how God loved Him and wanted him to be saved, from the things I'd learned at church.

Dr. Allen is a right-on as he can be.

Tad Thompson


I agree with much of what Dr. Allen says in this piece. One thing that should be mentioned is that this man's testimony has really nothing to do with Calvinism, but rather a misunderstanding of the gospel. No one is saved or lost on the basis of their position on election. Many Calvinistic pastors and churches have incredible evangelistic zeal. This man's issue was not Calvinism, but rather that he was not born again. I know nothing about the church he grew up in, but there are dead calvinistic churches of all stripes and dead non-calvinistic churches.

We will never be able to focus on our mission as Southern Baptists if Calvinists are seen, like Spurgeon was once called, as the scum of the earth, or if Calvinists misrepresent the views and attitudes of the non-calvinist camp.

Tim Rogers

Brother Peter,

I believe Dr. Allen really laid it on the line. Certainly we are not for Calvinist being denied entry or leadership in the convention. But neither are we for Calvinist promoted as leaders simply because of their soteriological position.



Peter –

Thanks for posting this. I’m moved with different emotions as I think about the various players and stories revealed in the video. One story thread reveals a young man’s journey from darkness to light – I praise God for the connection of Truth and Spirit of Truth which brought salvation and spiritual life to him. Another thread speaks of great love, as the man’s wife and family interceded for his lost soul – a tremendous reminder of the power of prayer and the responsibility of believers. Yet another story paints the picture of a leadership dilemma and sends a mixed message to Southern Baptists at a time when we need a “Thus saith the Lord” on this issue.



I think Dr. Allen summed up well most non-Calvinists' position toward Calvinists in the SBC. Note he did mention there are some who make Calvinism a "cause" in the convention. While I do not speak for Dr. Allen, I'm sure Founders Ministries meets the "cause" about which Dr. Allen speaks. Founders vision is to "reform" the SBC. This is public knowledge. And, as long as Founders attempts to "reform" the SBC back to its alleged Calvinistic exclusivisity, there will be contention over Calvinism in the SBC.

With that, I am...

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