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2011.03.06

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craig Daliessio

Peter,
Doesn't this actually play into the argument that Reformed thinkers hold? That God DOES in fact send the unsaved to a horrible eternal torment? Their argument is that this horrendous end somehow reveals His sovereignty. As a free will espouser, I maintain that all who end up in eternal torment, (and I do believe in eternal punishment not annihilation,) will have arrived there under their own power with a broken hearted and weeping God in their rear-view mirror.

Dr. James Galyon

Craig:
As a Reformed thinker, my response is this: First, God does in fact send the unsaved to a horrible eternal torment. Revelation 20 states plainly that the wicked are judged according to their works, and then thrown into the Lake of Fire. The Lord Jesus also spoke of being thrown into fire in such passages as Mark 9, where He also declared Hell is a place where "their worm does not die and their fire is not quenched." In other words, the unrepentant don't merely take a trip of their own volition to Hell, they are cast there. Second, those who end up in eternal torment arrive there because they chose freely to reject God and continue in their sinful ways during their lifetimes. God isn't to be blamed for their unbelief and refusal to repent. Rather, every person is responsible for his/her own actions.

peter lumpkins

Craig,

Thanks brother. I am uncomfortable with language which so strenuously pronounces "God's glory" rising up from hell's charred carcases of human beings made in God's image. I realize this is not so Edwardsean but it nevertheless is so. When Jesus spoke His most provocative language concerning hell--"where the worm dieth not and the fire is never quenched," the "Gehenna" or garbage dump of the universe, I cannot make an automatic leap as do the hell-"glorifyers" do. In fact though I also have a hard time thinking of God the Father "weeping," as it were, it is spot on to suggest, as you do Craig, that Christ wept and wept profusely (if not outwardly then most certainly inwardly) as He spoke His penetrating language of hell, hell people choose for themselves again as you rightly insist. An obvious example is Christ weeping over Jerusalem...

Grace, brother. Always a pleasure.
With that, I am...
Peter

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