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Don Johnson


You wrote: "Now, in light of all this, how could you reasonably believe he was saved? Was Ishmael a gospel believer?"

No, Ishmael was not a Gospel believr, but then nor was anyone else in the Old Testament. However, Ishmael was a saved person and today is in Heaven with the other saints. There is some evidence that Esau may even be saved, though I wouldn't dogmatically say he was saved. The evidence that Ishmael was saved is undeniable. You be the judge.

1. Gen.17:20 "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."

What rejected reprobate did God say He would bless and make fruitful? Answer no one! Ishmael was saved.

2. Gen. 21:17 "And God heard the voice of the lad..." What other lost person did God hear and then miraculously supply water.

3. Gen. 21:20 "And God was with the lad..." What other lost person does the Bible say God was with? In Gen. 39:2 "And the Lord was with Joseph..." Was Joseph saved? Also, please explain how a Holy God could possibly be with a lost rejected reprobate?

4. Gen. 25:17 "and was gathered unto his people." Abraham, Issac, Jacob, Aaron, Moses and Ishmael were all said to have been "gathered unto his people." Were any of the others lost?

I'll ask you what you asked me: Now in light of all this, how could reasonably believe Ishmael was NOT saved?

Because one should clearly see Ishmael was a saved man, we also must realize the election of Isaac and Jacob in Rom. 9 was not unto salvation. Which of course the text does not mention, but it must be inferred into the text to make "unconditional election" viable.

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