« Danny Akin, SEBTS, SBC Voices, and my Take on Acceptable Engagement by Peter Lumpkins | Main | Al Mohler and Moral Reasoning as Applied to Yoga & Perhaps Another Thing or Two by Peter Lumpkins »



Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

cb scott

"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never -- in nothing, great or small, large or petty -- never give in, except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy."

--------------------Winston Churchill----------------------------


LOL! You crack me up. Don't ever give up.

Darby Livingston


joe white

Don't quit yet! I am waiting on your review of "Salvation and Sovereignty". (:

Robin Foster


You know how I feel. I love and appreciate you. Remember it is your friends who seek your best interests, not those who want to destroy you. Keep on truckin!

Bro. Robin

Chris Alan

As a long time Southern Baptist I would ask that you either quite blogging or atleast quite trying to push your personal beliefs on all other Southern Baptists. In your biography section you say, "Thus, I simply refuse to allow non-essentials to drive me from my fellow believers." Most Southern Baptists (especially those under 40 which will be who carry on the SBC) believe that alcohol consumption is a non-essential. Your posts this week compared to your statement in your biography are certainly hypocritical. Alcohol consumption is not an "essential" because it does not affect whether you are saved. I don't drink and never will but I don't believe that we as SB's should cast out anyone who does drink in moderation. It's because of Southern Baptists like you who have a voice and who are in the public eye that try to push their personal views on the denomination that our denomination is getting such a bad reputation with non-believers. I think it would help us reach the lost if all S. Baptist leaders quite blogging. How much time this week could you have spent doing ministry rather than on the computer responding to people's comments and worrying about your reply?

peter lumpkins

Guys (and gal),

Thanks for the stop-bys and 'keep-ons' even if Joe has an ulterior motive :^). Promise, Joe, the other parts of SSM will post soon...


Know I too appreciate your comment even if it comes from the "other side." And, while it does implicate me in some ways, it does not attempt to contort my inner life into some twisted, ugly wreckage due to my evil-oriented bend. Hence, you nicely demonstrate one may be strongly assertive without hurling the far too common moral insults either side lobs. Thank you, brother.

I will try and be brief.

A) I continue blogging, not to push or impose my personal belief on all SBs, but, in part, to remind some Southern Baptists the rock from which we were hewn--abstinence from intoxicating substances for pleasurable purposes

B) You rightly quote my vitae; I "refuse to allow non-essentials to drive me from my fellow believers..." However, my statement reflects a broad understanding of historic Christianity. It should not be read apart from my commitment to "ecclesial boundaries" which I carefully qualified. Most--virtually all, in fact--of my contentions within the SBC are "family squabbles"; that is, the issues are Baptist-to-Baptist driven rather than believer-to-believer driven. Hence, from what I gather from the meaning of hypocrisy, there is no tension I can see

C) Agreed Somewhat: "Alcohol consumption is not an "essential" because it does not affect whether you are saved". While alcohol consumption does not "affect whether you are saved"--that is, in any determinative salvific sense--neither does security of the believer, complementarianism, separation of state from church, church ecclesiology, or any number of other significant, non-negotiable doctrinal beliefs we've identified as essential for being Southern Baptist (BF&M).

The truth is, at least as I would try to make the case when dealing with an integrated corpus of beliefs, one cannot ask nor answer properly "Is belief "A" essential?" until one answers, "Essential to what?" For example, if one asks "Is baptism by immersion [A] essential to salvation [B]?" It seems to me only one conclusion is proper: it is not. But change the relation and ask it again: "Is baptism by immersion [A] essential to biblical ecclesiology [C]?" It seems to me again a single conclusion must be affirmed: "Yes!" So is baptism by immersion essential to being saved? No. But it is essential...essential to a fundamental biblical ecclesiology.

It seems to me, then, when you say "Alcohol consumption is not an "essential" because it does not affect whether you are saved, " I reply, whether or not to imbibe for recreational purposes may not be essential to belief "B" (determinative to one's salvation) but it nonetheless may be an essential to belief "C" (no need to fill in what constitutes "C," which is another question)..or D...or E, etc. That's an example of the way I attempt to reason this out, Chris.

D) Well, you may be right; I concede reading me may not be healthy for non-believers. Admittedly, however, I'm wondering out loud how telling them, "drink up!--only don't over do it" is a superior message. In my view it's not only not superior, it's at the very best on a moral flat-line with American culture which says the very same thing--"drink!--but be very careful." Parroting the same line as our indulgent culture, at least for me, neither holds attraction for lost souls looking for different, unique answers from the church than they get in mainstream pop culture, nor does it seem to be a confessing church's well-reasoned ethic.

I hope this helps, Chris.
With that, I am...

Eric Opsahl

As a reformed Baptist, I certainly don't run in the same circles as Mr. Lumpkins (Though more important we do share oneness in Christ).

Come on....What kind of question is:"How much time this week could you have spent doing ministry rather than on the computer responding to people's comments and worrying about your reply". Cant the same be asked of you after you take the time to reply on his site.

Do you really think it's wrong for individuals ...."to push your personal beliefs on all other Southern Baptists". None of us, including Mr. Lumpkins, has the power to "push your personal beliefs on all others, though we certainly should have the freedom to voice our opinions.

Could you be over reacting a bit?


Troy in Florida

Why is it that when someone from "the other side" is expressing their opinion, they're pushing their personal beliefs onto someone else? But when the other is expressing their opinion, it's just that, their opinion and should be granted accordingly.

Sounds like an attempt to squash personal beliefs by some to me.

Keep up the blogging, Peter.


Eric & Troy,

Thanks brothers. I appreciate both your contributions...

With that, I am...

J. Dale Weaver, M. Div.


Though I don't comment as often as in the past, I still pray for you and value the contribution you make to the work of Christ and Southern Baptists. I appreciate you my Brother. :-)



peter lumpkins


Thanks brother. And I appreciate you, the conversations and fellowship we've had and, as always, the contribution you've given when you have participated here.

With that, I am...



I guess I missed all the fun, huh? Just wanted to tell that I'm glad you're here to stay. Blogs can be a ministry too, especially for those searching for answers to questions that arise from Calvinism.

I'm glad that you speak out about alcohol also. It may not be an "essential" to Salvation, but it's certainly essential to the Southern Baptist Church.

I was raised in the home of an alcoholic. I've adopted a child that I'm now 99% sure suffers from Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He's has learning disabilities that will never go away outside of a miracle. The church needs to speak out more on alcohol.

peter lumpkins


Thanks for logging on again. And yes I am here to stay for a good while I trust. Also, I "owe" you a few lines on my change theological journey from Calvinism to non-Calvinism. I hope I can put a few thoughts together soon...

With that, I am...

The comments to this entry are closed.