Hussein Wario on James White by Peter Lumpkins

UPDATE:  James White has "answered" the point I raise here questioning his "expertise" in Islam (//link). Poor James.  After publicly stating he was through dealing with the likes of Peter Lumpkins, I have counted at least three pieces he's put out with my name attached.  I guess I really am an addictive read ;^). 

I am curious though.  White writes, "I hear Peter Lumpkins (one of the chief purveyors of addled thinking in the promotion of Canerism today) has raised questions about my being an expert on Islam. Once again Lumpkins shows himself utterly incapable of either research, or honesty, or both." 

If White only "heard" I'd raised questions about his "expertise" on Islam, and not explored my thoughts himself, how is it he confidently concludes I show myself "utterly incapable of either research, or honesty, or both"?  Did James White validate what he'd heard I'd said? Or, did he simply assume my guilt without sufficiently checking the evidence?  Where have we noted a similar pattern like this before?

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R. C. Sproul once indicated apologists are theologians who have little to no expertise on any subject.  A "jack" of all theological trades, so to speak. I thought that was an odd admission coming from one who, on every count, is himself a Christian apologist... .

Yet Sproul’s admission was the occasion for my personal aspirations to be an “apologist” to slowly vanish away.

I do not know James White’s expertise.  He graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary in 1989 with an M.A. in theology.  In addition, he has three other degrees from an unaccredited school in Buckley, Washington—Th.M, Th.D, D.Min., all three of which are degrees in “apologetics.” Apparently, his M.Th. was given in exchange for his book on the King James Version of the Bible, and his Th.D. was issued in exchange for his book on the Trinity (see the following link for more info -//link).

My point of inquiry is simple:  did James White formally pursue advanced graduate studies in Islamic thought and theology? 

Apparently not.

Since neither thesis he produced reveals an interest in the subject.  And as Sproul reminds us, being an “expert” in “apologetics” in itself does not qualify one to be an expert in any other subject. In fact, White tells us he only seriously started studying Islam a few years ago (//link).

Incidentally, if James White has only been a serious student of Islam for the last few years, why is he teaching Islam at a gradate level in one of our seminaries? (//link) Imagine having a professor of preaching who only recently became interested in preaching.  Imagine a Baptist history professor only recently becoming a student of Baptist history.  Or, even more, imagine a professor of New Testament who but recently started seriously studying the New Testament. 

Why, then, would Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary--a seminary supported with CP monies--employ a “professor” to teach graduate courses on the Muslim faith who only recently became a student of Islam?  I recently started studying the emergent church.  Could I get a job as "professor" teaching graduate students church growth?  That’s a good question for a messenger to the Orlando Southern Baptist Convention to ask during the Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary report.

Hence, for James White to set himself up as a scholar on Islam is ridiculous from my point of view. And, apparently others who are scholarly familiar with the Muslim faith agree to some extent. 

Former Muslim and Christian author, Hussein Wario, maintains James White is deficient in his understanding of Islam, and, in fact, that White’s deficiency led to his unfortunate underestimation of Ergun and Emir’s Caner’s genuine Islamic scholarship. Indeed, to hear Wario on White, the best advice James White could entertain is to go back to Salt Lake City and leave Muslims to those who know both their theology and culture. 

Below is a lengthy quote from Hussein Wario, author of Cracks in the Crescent:

“It dawned on me during our [Warior and James White] discussion that his Muslim scholar friend Shiekk Yasir Qadhi, who had emailed him, would give the benefit of the doubt to Dr. Caner and wouldn’t draw a conclusion because he did not know if his prayer rag was waterproof. That was when I realized that Dr. White has an underlying problem, perhaps beyond these accusations of Dr. Caner being a liar.

I am a Reformed Christian and I am utterly ashamed of Dr. White. In my opinion, he is a disgrace to the Reformed faith—sola scriptura—because of his meddling in this matter and his disregard of the scripture. He is tacitly helping Muslims with their war against Muslim converts to Christianity. He even is going a step further in perfecting it by discussing Dr. Emir Caner on-air yesterday. His main issue with Emir is that he “erroneously” stated that Jesus was mentioned in the Qur’an 93 times [podcast track 52:00-56:00].  Would that prove him as a fake expert on Islam when he was quoting John Esposito, Professor of International Affairs and Islamic Studies and the director of the Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University, who says, “Jesus is referred to in ninety-three verses of the Quran” (The Oxford History of Islam, pages 306-307)?

Carl Medearas says in his book Muslims, Christians, and Jesus, that, “The Qur’an mentions Jesus almost one hundred times…” Minneapolis: Bethany House, 2008, 66.  Does that make Mr. Medearas, the most visible “international expert in the field of Arab-American and Muslim-Christian relations,” a fake expert on Islam? Jesus is mentioned by name 25 times but he is referred to directly or indirectly “almost one hundred times” in the Qur’an and that does not make one a fake expert on Islam. Muslim scholars read every chapter of Mr. Medearas’ book prior to its publication and concluded that it was “fair” to Islam (page 20). This is one other instance that shows Dr. White has a grudge or jealousy issue, partly due to that scheduled debate that never took place.

The initial issue was whether the Caner Brothers were fake ex-Muslims. None of the evidence has proven that” (//link)

Apologists must know their limitations.  If one is not an expert on a subject, it’s best neither to pretend to be nor allow others to promote you to be .  And, know this:  performing “debates” with college students who are not credible theologians, Bible scholars, nor Qur’an experts—in fact, English majors (//link)--may make one look much more “scholarly” than he or she actually is. 

There’s more to being a top class scholar than doing “debates,” no matter the level of formality.

With that, I am…

Peter

More of Hussein Wario’s Responses to James White’s Assaults on Drs. Ergun and Emir Caner:

Desperate Muslims and Ignorant Christians Part 1

Desperate Muslims and Ignorant Christians Part 2

Dr. Ergun Caner: How Devout?

Comments

[D D A]

"Incidentally, if James White has only been a serious student of Islam for the last few years, why is he teaching Islam at a gradate level in one of our seminaries?"

If as you admit, James White's primary vocation is a Christian apologist, is it not reasonable to assume that after 2-3 of intensive study and preparation for debates, he would not become an expert on Islam

"My point of inquiry is simple: did James White formally pursue advanced graduate studies in Islamic thought and theology?"

Did Dr. Caner pursue such a degree?

[Ron Phillips, Sr.]

Peter,

I found it interesting that Hussein Wario clearly shows James White to be in error with regards to his criticisms of the Caner brothers use of "hadith 9.57" and compare it to "bible 3:16". It does seem clear that the Caners are not incorrect in their use of that citation. Wario states: He is not justified to disparage the Caner Brothers solely based on his Islamic library, which surprisingly contains only books that cite Hadith a particular way. I also was interested that Dr. Emir Caner is shown to be correct about the number of references to Jesus in the Quran. According to Wario, This is one other instance that shows Dr. White has a grudge or jealousy issue, partly due to that scheduled debate that never took place.

I also must note that you have asked good and serious questions about Golden Gate. This question should be raised in Orlando.

If I was a cynical man, I would say his Islamic studies is much like the fellow who goes to the library at Oxford, looks up some information and can now claim he "studied at Oxford". Good thing I am not cynical. :)

Blessings,

Ron P.

[Andrew Disque]

Comment on the *update*

1) Why are "hearing" of something and "validating" it mutually exclusive activities?

2) Peter, do you always idnependently validate everything you hear before acting on it? Of course not. Some sources have demonstrated themselves to be so trustworthy that there is no reason for doubt. Why hold Dr. White to a different standard?

[peter]

Phil,

Whether you're interested in my writings or not, I'm afraid you're going to have to address something I've written if you expect your comment to be posted. My blog is not a place just to post your opinion about LU.

With that, I am...
Peter

[peter]

DDA

You query: "is it not reasonable to assume that after 2-3 of intensive study and preparation for debates, he would not become an expert on Islam"?
I answer, no. Preparing for debates does not necessarily make one an expert on any subject, unless it would be the preparation for debates.

You also query, "Did Dr. Caner pursue such a degree?" Unless my memory does not serve me well, he most certainly did. Two of them to be exact.

With that, I am...
Peter

P.S. Please note my guidelines for posting comments on this site, especially pertaining to identity. Thanks.

[D D A]

Peter,

My apologies for running afoul of your commenting rules. It was an oversight.

"My point of inquiry is simple: did James White formally pursue advanced graduate studies in Islamic thought and theology?"

I asked if Dr. Caner pursued such a degree, meaning a advanced raduate course of study in Islamic thought and theology.

I copied this directly from Dr. Caners website.
"He has a Masters degree from The Criswell College, a Master of Divinity and a Master of Theology from Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, and a Doctor of Theology from the University of South Africa"

How would one determine whether or not one of these degrees is in Islamic thought and theology?

You answered straightforwardly my question about 2-3 years of study and debate preparation, No.

What then is required for one to be an expert on Islam?

Don Arndt

[Brian H.]

Peter,

On your comment "My point of inquiry is simple: did James White formally pursue advanced graduate studies in Islamic thought and theology?

Apparently not."

Dr. Caner's degrees are not in Islamic studies either! If you have spent any time looking into Dr. Whites material, he never claims to be an expert of Islam but a student of it. There are records of him debating Muslims as far back as 1999.

From what I've seen from both men I'd say their knowledge on the subject is comparable ... but that isn't the real issue of this controversy.

The heart of the matter is not being addressed here. All this talk of Dr. Caner's degrees being bogus and Dr. White's degrees being bogus is simply blowing smoke. It’s like kids on a school playground ... "Oh yea, my Daddy is so big ..."

The issue is Dr. Caner took his Muslim background (however much that was) and used it at the right time in America when the country was suddenly shocked into paying attention to Islam. He was the next “new thing” that our itching ears wanted to hear and he was propelled to where he is today.

Had Dr. Caner been honest about being born in Sweden, coming to America when he was around 4 years old, and only spending limited time with his father after the divorce ... he would still have been plenty effective in his message.

It appears however that wasn't sexy enough of a background story. Dr. Caner had to claim he "he grew up in Muslim majority countries". That he "Learned about America by watching the Dukes of Hazard in Turkey". That his father disowned him (His non-custodial father; which is quite different from the image Dr. Caner paints when telling the story). Claimed that he was born in Turkey ... and I could go on and on. These statements came out of Dr. Caners own mouth and are forever recorded on video and audio for anyone who doubts to go hear for themselves. Dr. Caner has caused this firestorm himself. This "Just how much of a Muslim are you” stuff is for the birds.

Dr. Caners statements were made from pulpits in churches around America. You don't think there is a problem with that?

I'm an Army Officer. I spent a year of my life in Baghdad very close to where the three Hebrew children were cast into the fiery furnace. Right along the Tigris river. I heard the call to prayer 5 times a day coming from REAL Minarets given by a REAL Muezzin that I could see with my own eyes in the almost 130 degree heat.

From the released court documents, it appears that Dr. Caner did not grow up in such an environment but yet he either claimed he did or made statements that naturally led those hearing his message to conclude that he did.

Hearing Dr. Caner speak on several occasions (I live in Lynchburg. I also have co-workers that were born and raised in Turkey and Iran) and hearing the claims he has made in audio and video sermons & speaking engagements ... I can only imagine what he has said to rooms full if Marines that are about to be put in harms way ... about to risk their life ... and there is Dr. Caner standing in front of them pretending to know something about the environment they are going into. I’m sure Dr. Caner was very clear he was just giving them knowledge of Islam that he learned here in the US on weekends as a child ... that he really wasn't born into or grow up in the same environment they were about to be entering.

You don't think there is anything wrong with that? There isn't anything morally or ethically wrong with that Dr. Geisler/Dr. Towns?

The Gospel has power! The Bible says His Word will not return void. We don't have that same guarantee so why do preachers feel they have to sensationalize a story so that God's Word can be proclaimed and make an impact?

This back and forth really reveals the bankrupt nature of the Church in America and doesn't look too different from what is going on in Washington DC. How far we have drifted as a Nation! With all the tools and resources we have available today ... what a responsibility we have and how will we be judged?

Respectfully,

Brian

[peter]

Brian,

You protest, "Dr. Caner's degrees are not in Islamic studies either!" I think you are mistaken. I hope you're not just repeating JW's post. I'll show this later on this week. JW is dead wrong. He owes Caner an apology.

As some of the "sensationalism" you are quite right that it can be both destructive to hearers and, unchecked, may lead to explicitly making stories up. But know this: all preachers are faced with this temptation. Please here what I just said and did not say. I by no means am rationalizing it away, arguing it makes no difference, morally or otherwise. Rather I am suggesting preachers are continually bombarded with the temptation to "sensationalize."

I am. And, I've failed at times. Only Lord knows if all my sermons over the last 25 years were pedantically examined, many, many discrepancies would surface.

Indeed many of my sermons could be very embarrassing. This would especially be so comparing earlier sermons with latter ones. I'm on tape talking about an eye transplant in 1980! I laugh about it. Were James White and Company privy to the tape, I'd be made out to be a liar and a fraud!

All of that said, nothing I've watched or heard from Dr. Caner makes me wonder if he has fabricated his life, his testimony, his expertise, which, please understand, remains the centerpiece of the accusations against him.

Grace, brother. Thanks again for letting me know the circumstances why you need to remain semi-anonymous.

With that, I am...
Peter

[peter]

Don,

Sorry. I completely overlooked your query. Note,however,my response to Brian above. I think that will help for now.

With that, I am...
Peter

[Bryan Tucker]

Peter,

I think your missing the point of James White's debates with Muslims. All of his debates are on textual issues (The harmony of the Gospels)or defending the Bible against Muslim atacks on the Bible and its teachings(The Trinity). In doing so you don't have to be an expert on Islam you just have to know your Bible. You don't necessarliy have to memorize the Koran. Dr. White readily admits he is still a student of Islam and not an expert. Debating is not a battle of expertise it is a defending of ones own position against the other sides interpretation.

Bryan