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You've printed what I've been thinking through. It's kinda like this to me. A salesman wants me to buy a Chevy and boy does he tell me how great it is. But I only find out later that he personally drives a Ford. Something just does not seem right to me in that situation. I too wonder that if CP gifts are down so, why aren't these leaders leading by doing?

Thanks for raising the issue.


Bob Cleveland


Also, as respects J.D. Greear: being an SEBTS adjunct professor, isn't that pay partially funded by CP moneys?

Also, the CP certainly subsidized Dr. Greear's education at SEBTS, didn't it?

And how can we expect grads from our seminaries to be supporters of the hand that fed them (in large part) when they're being taught by folks who apparently think of the CP as they do broccoli, and discipline (it's fine, but it's for other people)?

Not to mention .. where is the Alabama representation?

To me, your post is a model of restraint.

peter lumpkins


Thanks. I'm very reluctant to raise questions, implicating those who are SBC leaders. And, when I do, I really desire to be respectful.

As I said in the beginning, these are incredibly gifted men and women on this TF. But, they surely understand the analogy you've used.

Indeed I think you were much too kind with your analogy, Luke. Perhaps more applicable would be: At a press conference, the CEO of Ford states,

"The reason Ford is not doing well is because too many Americans are buying foreign automobiles. I encourage all new car shoppers to buy only American made automobiles!"

Upon this, he leaves the conference, hops in his BMW, and drives away clueless what had just taken place.

With that, I am...

Tom Bryant

Good. I am glad to see others have these questions, also.

peter lumpkins


I think your raise some good points. Young Baptists like Dr. Greear must surely think we old folks have reached the senility threshold. The SBC funded his education. He now becomes an advocate in pooling funds for church-planting networks elsewhere, all the while he's presumably a recipient of CP funding now (not to mention his years being funded by the IMB).

Grace. Bob. Oh, by the way, you are correct in wondering where Alabama is. Georgia could have easily forfeited one (since we have two from same church) and Florida has five. Interesting how this happened.

With that, I am...

Darby Livingston

Well said, Peter.

Chris Gilliam


I think your analysis raises an very interesting point, withholding funds for non- agreement but maintaining membership til the tide turns. While you did not state this, it was raised in my mind. Which indeed begs a question of great importance. When was the last time you recall a church member who voted with their pocketbook every get back into the stream of things? I know you having pastored for many years have experience with those folks who vote by withholding, as do I. However, I never recall their coming back with the same finacial enthusiasm they once had, even if things changed toward their thinking. Your thoughts?

Luke--I agree with Peter.

Bob- Let's nominate CB for the Bama boys!
And Vol for the TN contribution to the cause. Why shucks, lets get Les from the carolinas to rally the voice of the small churches too. I like it!!


You hit the nail on the head. GCR is a great idea, but it won't float with the megachurch leadership's example of meager giving.
GA Baptist



So what you are telling me is that they are kind of like the politicians who want everybody to be on one form of health care while they themselves have a different one telling us the whole while that what they are wanting for us is the absolute best though they themselves do not ascribe to it?:)(Is that stiff enough?)

I just could not avoid the political connection though I will be quick to insert, I have no idea about the thoughts and intents of these individuals involved and can only ascertain what I know by observation understanding that God alone knows the heart.

Les Puryear


I will have a post on many of these same issues on Wednesday, Aug. 26. I think the BP article raised more questions than it answered. My post will have detailed data that I received from the GCR Task Force pastors whose giving was questionable in the BP report.


SelahV Today by Hariette Petersen

So is the task force going to be doing what it can to change bureaucracy in order to preserve the CP or to eliminate the CP? To build it up and call more missionaries, or put the effort into planting more churches? What are the goals of the task force? selahV

Doug in Memphis

If JD Greear is the future of the SBC, count me out.

Any Southern Baptist preacher who is okay with consumption of beverage alcohol isn't fit to lead in our convention in my opinion.

Same goes for Matt Chandler, too.


BTW, the link to Les' site is incorrect. Two letters were transposed. He does not run the "Mega site of Bible studies and information." It should be http://lesliepuryear.blogspot.com/ in case anyone is looking for his excellent research.


peter lumpkins


Well, what can I say?

With that, I am...

Les Puryear

iMark & Peter,

Sorry for the broken link. It wasn't Peter's fault but mine. Tried to type it too fast I guess. Sorry.


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