Interview with Pastor & Author, Bob Pearle: "The Vanishing Church: Searching for Significance in the 21st Century"

Dr. Pearle is pastor of Birchman Baptist Church in Ft Worth, Texas and his latest book is published by Hannibal Books in Garland, Texas.  I recently offered a review on The Vanishing Church, emphasizing its fundamental difference from many "emergent-like" approaches to doing church today.  In my view, The Vanishing Church is a much needed antidote to the poisoned ecclesiology so often found flowing through the contaminated bloodstream of many trendy new ways in doing church.  The unwritten subtext beneath the seductive statistics cited as evidence that the church needs to change, lies the old pollster principle for church growth--market-driven ministry.

I was recently able to ask Dr. Pearle some pointed questions.  Below is the result of our conversation.

Interview with Dr. Bob Pearle:  The Vanishing Church:  Searching for Significance in the 21st Century 

1. Dr. Pearle, tell the readers a little bit about yourself - -your birth, upbringing, conversion and call to the ministry (can be brief obviously).

I was born in Houston, TX and lived there until leaving for seminary in 1977. At 9 years of age I joined a Baptist church but was not really saved until June 1971 right after graduation from high school. I was called to the ministry several months later while in college.

2. I understand you now serve all Texas Baptists in a particular role.  What is that role and how is it significant in keeping thousands of Texas Southern Baptists together?

I am presently in my second term serving as President of the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention. The SBTC is unified not around a person or personality but around a common set of core biblical beliefs.

3. The title of your book The Vanishing Church: Searching for Significance in the 21st Century suggests the modern church may have lost significance, or at least that significance is vanishing.  Is such a concern why you wrote the book?

Yes. In looking over the ecclesial landscape churches are not impacting the culture as they once were. Many of the changes we are witnessing in churches today are an effort to recapture that significance but it is not working. I don’t believe a church impacts culture by being more like culture.

4. On page 15, you write "In society we see a major attempt to redefine marriage altogether." If I may, I'd like to springboard from that statement and ask, do you sense an attempt by today's evangelicals to redefine the church altogether?  If so, how?

I don’t think they are trying to redefine the church as much as they are overlooking the weightier biblical support for the local church. The importance of the local church is being usurped by the broader universal church.

5. Dr. Pearle, you appear to assume great significance for church membership.  Why is church membership so important?  I mean, why can't I just attend church somewhere without being on somebody's roll?

I have dedicated an entire chapter to this issue. Too many think that church membership is simply a traditional thing. It is not. There is a biblical basis for church membership. If a pastor is accountable to his flock he must know who is in his flock. If believers are to be accountable to one another in the body then they must know who they are. If church discipline needs to be exercised the local church only has authority over its own.

6. I don't want to put you on the spot but I do think this is an important question: is there a discernible gospel order in the New Testament pertaining to the ordinances?  For example, should believers' baptism precede believers' communion?  Or, is this a question of individual Christian liberty?

This is an important issue and relates to the New Testament view of the local church. Once a person makes a commitment to Christ that person is to attach himself to a local church by baptism. The Lord’s Supper, being a church ordinance, is a privilege of the local church and should be reserved for those who have been scripturally baptized. Christian liberty is not a license to do whatever one pleases.

7. As a follow-up to the above questions pertaining to ordinances - -especially the ordinance of baptism - -is the mode of baptism considered a so-called second-tier doctrine?  Why or why not?  Furthermore, how should Southern Baptists relate to other Christian faith fellowships who do not practice believers' baptism by immersion?

The mode of baptism was an issue that our Baptist forefathers thought extremely important. So much so, that many gave their lives because they would not accept any other mode of baptism but immersion. The New Testament teaches that baptism is to be by immersion only. The founders and leaders of other denominations agree as well, although they do not practice immersion. We can embrace all who have repented of their sin and surrendered their lives to Christ as brothers and sisters in Christ even if they have not been baptized by immersion. However, should they desire to join a Baptist church they would need to be biblically baptized by immersion.

8. Dr. Pearle, you ask a rhetorical question on page 70: "Could the problem of declining churches be occurring because churches desire more to conform to culture than to be counter-cultural?" If you don't mind, I'd like you to briefly address your question for its a good one.

The church has never been more impacting on culture than when she was counter-cultural. If the church is not different than culture then why bother? Tragically, I believe that is why churches are declining and why they are losing their significance. Their search for significance will not be found in conforming to culture but rather conforming to the biblical pattern. The church should speak prophetically to the culture and should uphold a higher standard. The old North Carolina evangelist Vance Havner used to say that the church has become so worldly and the world so churchy that it is hard to tell them apart.

9. What is the key to relevancy the modern church must possess? Do you think there are mistakes we can make in attempting to be relevant?  If so, how?

There is nothing more relevant to modern man than the Bible. It is God breathed and is always up to date. I believe the Bible speaks to every issue of man whether by a particular scripture or a principle taught from scripture. We hear a lot of talk today about relevancy as if this generation is the only generation concerned with relevancy. The modern church is tripping over itself to be relevant and in the process is becoming irrelevant. The biblical gospel is offense to man’s pride and self sufficiency. We do err when we try to take the offense out of the gospel.

10. If you could determine one impression readers would gain from reading your book, what would that impression be?

Biblical doctrine should never be compromised in an effort to win the approval of others. One can be biblical and loving. Truth and love are not enemies but true friends. 

Thank you, Dr. Pearle.  The Vanishing Church is both timely and prophetic.  Get your copy here.  

With that,  I am...

Peter

Comments

[Tim Rogers]

Brother Peter,

Great interview. Thanks for putting this together.

Blessings,
Tim

[Steve]

I am most grateful for Dr. Pearle's work. I thoroughly enjoyed the book. It challenges the conceptions of those who wish to reenvision Baptist churches into something Baptist churches are not.
The book is challenging. it is encouraging. it is enlightening. it ought to be a "must read" for every seminary student considering Baptist ministry! And it ought to be preached in every Baptist church!
Many thanks folks for a great book!
Steve Grose