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2009.01.12

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Trey Atkins

Well done, Peter. Form and meaning are two different things. As an IMB worker, who has used the Camel Method (though very different in form from this), I can affirm your caution and proper emphasis on message. The phrase, "meaning cannot be sacrificed at the altar of form", is an excellent way of capturing the truth of what you are saying.
In defense of the brother who wrote the quoted contextualization above, it could be appropriate, I believe, if used as an initial entry into a relationship and not when intended as the message. In other words, the ground work for hearing the truth could be laid in this manner.
Last, I disagree with some of Dr. Smith's explanation concerning the use of "Allah" by the missionary. However, I can come at it from the other side. In the Muslim culture we served in, the Muslims used the Christian name for God and not, "Allah." Since the Muslim were using that word for God, was the entire meaning of the word corrupted and a proper response avoidance? Or, since Muslims were using our word for "God", had they somehow come to ap proper understanding of who God really is?
I believe the culture this worker serves in, "Allah" is the word for God. Dr. Smith is right when he says that very different things are meant by that word to Muslims and to Christians. It needs explanation, not avoidance.
Many in our own English speaking culture of America mean very different things from Dr. Smith concerning the word, "God." Our response is not to avoid it, but to teach it, explain, and to patiently help people come to know God as He is, not as our culture might teach He is.

peter lumpkins

Trey,

Thanks for logging on. And, I appreciate your service for our Lord and His church through the CP.

The way I understand the missionary's use of the above testimony, it is used in the precise way in which you deemed appropriate: "if used as an initial entry into a relationship and not when intended as the message...the ground work for hearing the truth could be laid in this manner."

That being so, Trey, what is to be said regarding the initial introduction of one's faith to a first-time respondent? Put another way, if the first words I speak to a prospective adherent to the Christian faith are so gospelly inexact, how is it that I may recover such forfeited ground at a later stage, assuming there is a follow-up permitted? Supposing there is not a follow-up permissible for any number of reasons, could not I be held liable for sowing seeds impotent, for all practical purposes, of the biblical gospel?

Indicative of the quoted sections from the missionary's pilgrimage are, as Professor Smith noted, explicit replications of his/her faith that remain hopelessly entangled with both works-based redemptive language as well as language much too cozy with the indigent's own religion.

For example, it would seem that in order for "submission to Allah's will" to translate from Christianity to the Muslim's worldview perspective, similar--though not necessarily identical--referent concepts must stand as the foundational source for successful transference to take place. However, "submission to Allah's will" (Muslim) and "submission to God's will" (Christian) cannot be maintained as remotely similar, it seems to me. The former is primarily seen, if at all, in human religious activity, and at best, merely secondarily in heart transformation--again, if at all.

Contrarily, "submission to God's will" in Christianity foremostly is expressed in heart transformation--biblical faith--a faith only subsequently visible as a by-product of inner change in the form of human works, works which add no intrinsic value whatsoever to one's acceptability to the God of the Bible, unlike submission to Allah's will in Islam which does.

From any vantage point, I cannot see how the two can be viably maintained as similar referent concepts. If I am correct, then my reservation would even extend to the wording of the missionary's initial statement; and that, even if the sole primary purpose was to pique interest.

Grace, my brother Trey. With that, I am...

Peter

Tim Rogers

Brother Peter,

Great insight and explanation. You said; "submission to God's will" in Christianity foremostly is expressed in heart transformation--biblical faith--a faith only subsequently visible as a by-product of inner change in the form of human works, works which add no intrinsic value whatsoever to one's acceptability to the God of the Bible, unlike submission to Allah's will in Islam which does." I believe this is the heart of the disagreement. As FTME has proposed, his

    My Pilgrimage
article was not the complete gospel presentation, and we certainly understand a need of establishing talking points when presenting the gospel. However, as you say, we much to go back to straighten out when the gospel is presented.

Blessings,
Tim

Tim Rogers

I am sorry, that last sentence should read; However, as you say, we have too much to go back to straighten out when the gospel is presented.

Blessings,
Tim

Ray

Perhaps you can correct me if I am wrong, but I do not see a significant difference between the Missionaries use of "Allah" and the biblical writers use of "El." El was simply the Semitic word for God and had different meanings for different cultures. Through the progressive revelation of Scripture, El is further defined as YHWH. Could not this be an adequate method for correcting the mistaken identity of Allah?

peter lumpkins

Ray,

Thanks for your question, my brother. Know I am by no stretch either a linguistic or cross-cultural expert. I do perceive, however, a possible concern in your proposed analogy that since "El was simply the Semitic word for God," and the Biblical authors used it, that, therefore, employing "Allah" would be a similar and thus acceptable procedure as well. I hope I did not misunderstand your point.

My initial concern would raise the question pertaining to the obvious absence of corrective teaching in utilizing, without the least qualification, a term for God within a decidedly Christian worldview testimony--a term which has major non-Christian bias against it. Would this strategy not sacrifice content for communication, a question I raised in the original post? I am not convinced that far too much air is not bled out of the tire for the witness to travel far.

Grace, Ray. With that, I am...

Peter

Dave Miller

While there were some helpful points in the discussion, I found the whole thing amazingly frustrating. While I'm not sure we agree completely (or disagree too harshly), I appreciate your more balanced approach.

FTME made it very clear in his post that this was NOT a gospel presentation, but an initial contact, like the testimonies we use in EE, CWT or FAITH. I was told not to preach the gospel in the testimony, just to explain how Christ changed my life.

It seems to me that was precisely what he did. I felt that some of the critics were persistently unwilling to deal with his testimony for what it was, a testimony. They tried to make it something it wasn't.

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