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May 09, 2018

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Lydia

Different standards for special people. Until you aren’t special anymore. That’s why it’s unprincipled. And I cannot stand Patterson. But I am not throwing out my principles for the mob to protect “special” people who have taught the same.

Btw: Did Mike Leake ever support Driscoll/Acts29. If so, he is guilty, too, of supporting the objectification and demoralization of women. If he did not throw a fit over Driscoll, he is guilty of supporting him. Same for Mahaney who IS SBC thanks to Mohler. :)

This game never ends. This is how it plays out.

Lydia

Me thinks the “Scholar” just played the protected female snowflake card. Can’t handle uncomfortable questions?

Mary

Oh I didn't read this before I posted a comment in that other stream. What they're saying by dismissing Piper as not their circus not their monkey is that only some women matter but not all women which is of course ridiculous. Or maybe KSP thinks that no one in the SBC knows who John Piper is? Of course not. Let's see KSP works for Moore doesn't she? Do ya think the boss might have given some instruction as to how this was all supposed to play out and the focus is to be on Paige Patterson only do not get off that course for anything.

peter lumpkins

Note the commentary in the footnote concerning the attempt by SBCVoices contributor, Mike Leake, trying his best to exonerate John Piper from counselling abused women to endure being "smacked around." I'm simply stunned by the simplistic arguments some throw around as if it's persuasive and mature reasoning.

peter lumpkins

Mary,

Thanks. Though I'm unsure how long I'll be around, I intend to stick this current issue out til after the Trustee meeting in a couple of weeks. Who knows? Perhaps something we say here will make it to a trustee.

Oh, by the way, Mary, your comments are as provocative and spunky as ever. Haven't changed a bit!

peter lumpkins

Lydia,

Well, as I said in one of the posts, one either hates or loves a Warhorse, and Paige Patterson is definitely a Warhorse. I have confidence though. I actually think you, like me, would love him if you knew him. Even so, we're all exhausted when it comes to the denominational politics...

Lydia

Peter, I am exhausted with Antifa style SJW hits that never stop. People need to think long and hard about where all of this is going. I just read an excellent article in my monthly Imprimis about where the #metoo movement will lead us. And I say this as a long time victim advocate. Every case is unique and must be handled individually.

Another thing people who jump on bandwagons don’t contemplate is that often such movements are hijacked or emulated by very deceptive people as a political deflection strategy. I can smell Russ Moore a mile away on this one. The NY AG Schneiderman is another recent perfect example of thiswith his hijacking of the #me-too movement as a man who cares about women. . The man is pure evil but well heeled professional women he threatened and abused thought he was doing such great political things they gave him a pass. They agreed with his politics! We are seeing the same unprincipled thinking here with Piper. (Never mind his creepy sexual tweets)

So, the question is how to clean it up outside the legal process. I have no problem with such information shared publicly on public figures. But at the end of the day, people decide for themselves. I may not like it. I may think they are nuts or brainwashed and I can say that publicly, but beyond that— we are in very dangerous territory. It never ends well and the tactics never forgotten.

Robert Vaughn

Mary wrote above that what they're saying by dismissing Piper is that only some women matter but not all women which is of course ridiculous. I agree and realize Mary is pointing out hypocrisy and stupidity.

But ... my view from the cheap seats is that it all boils down to this: Right Now, ONLY PATTERSON MATTERS. This is not about abused women; it is about Paige Patterson. Even a noseblind hound would be able to sniff this out!

Mary

Ok, I found the twitter thing. Bless her heart but she is just not a nice person or is she one of those people that thinks pew sitters are beneath her and so she can just go off the rails. That Russ Moore he sure does know how to pick 'em!

Mary

Robert, absolutely! By dismissing Piper they're showing that this is nothing but politics and not about protecting women. But then as Lydia pointed out these are the same guys who wrote glowing blog posts after glowing blog posts thanking God for Mark Driscoll when his misogyny was clear as day. All those who so loudly proclaimed Driscoll's praises have never apologized, repented, or admitted to being oh so wrong about Driscoll. Because repentance is also now this political thing that gets thrown around to stir the masses and enforce groupthink when necessary.

Mary

Lydia, I noticed the "scholar" using her womancard. "Ooh TROLL asking me questions that I have no answer for!" Funny how she wants to talk about abuse against women except when she doesn't. Did she come out against the Village Church during the Hinckle debacle? That's SBC so surely we could find her chiming in using her womancard somewhere. If someone had the time if I were a betting woman I'd bet that all these people who are all up in arms about Paige Patterson had nothing to say about the Village Church and their spiritual abuse against a woman. But it's the "scholarly" thing to do to dismiss this as "antiCalvinist"

Mary

Ok, one more and then I have to call it a night. I found this thread on twitter where Ed Stetzer and friends were mocking the idea that they're being called on now to denounce certain other people. Mocking calls to denounce certain people not named Paige Patterson again just proves that this isn't actually about women but about going after Paige Patterson. Aren't these people trying to get a movement going to protect women from abuse? Well denouncing people who are clearly spouting nonsense about women/abuse/marriage is part of the movement. Unless of course it's only about SBC Politics.

https://twitter.com/jaredcwilson/status/994425254134124544

Lydia

Joe, there is no shame in adopting a pseudonym. When your job, how you care for your family, is threatened it's time to bring on the big dogs. And note, the other side does it, too. So until there is a huge Reckoning at the top, especially those who hold the power over most of the entities right now, I will consider all of this a political hit job.

No institution has two popes. I have noticed that people on Wades blog are calling Patterson a pope. He's just a waning bishop. Al Mohler is the Pope. The protected Pope, I might add.

Mary

Years ago when I didn't know any better someone got my name and the next Sunday the YRR Pastor at the church we were at went on a rant about people on the internet and how they were cowards for not taking their issues with the church to the leadership. Now of course the cowardly Pastor did not confront us personally - we only found out he was talking about me when a friend tipped us off to how he was spreading lies about my husband and me. This guy was ticked off because we warned everyone that this guy was a Calvinist - he denied it during the Pastor search process and that the he was using the 9 Marks process to take over the church. He denied this of course. My husband confronted him about his lies and he tried to sputter around and didn't really have good answer for his gossiping behind our backs and pushing lies that he claims he believed were truth - he had no evidence for his so called truth of course. We left the church. Years go by and he spends his time moving the church to the authoritarian 9 Marks Model - he thinks he has enough votes to push for membership based only on having signed a church covenant and he wants to redo the church constitution and bylaws. He didn't have the votes - church splinters - doesn't really split because people scattered after his abuse. He leaves the church in a huff as do his buddy associate and music guy. Church is let with no staff. That church still hasn't replaced any of the staff because the Calvinist that are left want more Calvinism and the old non Calvinist have learned their lesson. But yeah the Calvinist will go after people in their personal lives if they can.

Mary

And someone needs to point out that anyone who mocks the Traditionalist Statement as nothing important because it ONLY has 1200+++??? signatures does not need to be demanding we listen to a petition by women with 2,000 signatures. I'm not saying you should ignore the women's petition - they don't speak for me but whatever. What I'm saying is all those who've mocked the Traditionalist Statement as not worth consideration are now hoisted on their own petard. That includes pretty much everyone who blogs and posts at SBC Voices. But then again this is not about women anyway so of course those Voices will hypocritically declare that a handful of women represent all women everywhere.

Lydia

Mary, it would be nice to see some SBC women who actually speak up for ALL misogyny from ALL quarters. But that's not how the game is played. Instead the knee jerk political hit emotionalism has women like Wade's wife and Debbie Kaufman affirming male authority in a petition to get rid of Patterson! You can't make this stuff up.

I go back to victim advocacy. If an acceptable template of advocacy and "care" is to out a victim of discrimination without their express permission, then the ends justify the means. And sets it up as using a victim for a political hit. I sure hope people don't fall for that because they admire the person who did it. It has the potential to be disasterous to victims.

I could write reams on how one proceeds in these situations. But the goal is always building confidence and financial stability before you tackle the discrimination especially since the victim had a abusive home life. Discrimination situations are not the same as dealing with abuse although they are often referred to the same way and can include some abuse but usually to direct reports.

The only thing the "selective outrage" is doing is helping Mohler and Moore, both longtime misogynists, consolidate even more power. It was also quite curious that Wade was so keen to save JD Hall's Ministry career who teaches exactly what Patterson does about women why bullying teenagers on Twitter. Evidently he was worth saving for some reason.

JND

I tend to agree that much of the current hoorah is indeed about Paige Patterson.

Given that much of what his detractors are discussing occurred years ago, why have they waited until now?

Is it really all about "the spirit of the age"?

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