« What’s at Stake in the Southern Baptist Convention for the backlash against Russell Moore? A Response | Main | Kehukee Baptist Association formed from stolen churches? »

Jan 13, 2017

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Lydia

I think there is a strong possibility Moore might have a lingering image and perception problem as unfair as some think that is. There has been a long time unprecedented effort by the elites in this country to separate people into categories and groups based on political correctness. Not because of issues or policy.....but based upon political correctness and using that to marginalize anyone who disagrees with policy. Reasonable debate is out the window. Just call them racist and immoral.

Moore joined that establishment thinking side and used political correctness, NOT specific issues, to marginalized the very people who pay his high salary.

He looks like he sided with the world of protests that closed down highways, thinks cops are pigs, thinks Obamacare is benign, thinks Islam is good, thinks blacks are incompetent, needs safe rooms and coloring books and are "entitled". Sadly, Moore has performed as an entitled peacock who knows best for us ignorant rubes. Just like the establishment he courted and wanted so badly to be a part of.

I would not put it past him to encourage his media contacts to further drive a wedge as we see from the NPR reporter who is gleefully positioning much of the SBC as racists and Moore as their moral savior who is being maligned. Folks, this is how narcissists operate. Never forget. It is always about Moore. He has always been an opportunist. He is not an ideologue.

He is, however, protected by the SBC Pope Mohler. Most of the SBC is afraid to deal with Mohler. And the SBC will continue to pay a high profile "personality" who publicly thinks they are racists..

But I do think a man of character and integrity would step down and go work as a lobbyist or for a media outlet. Perhaps one of his establishment politicos like Rubio would hire him? Then he can call the SBC racists without accepting a high salary by the same racists. I am sure Rubio will welcome him now. (Wink)

Or, could it be that Moores supporters these days consist of the protesting far left, Neo Csls and the establishment media? :o)

Alex G

Moore gives me the impression that he relishes his role of supreme moral lecturer with it's inevitable and subsequent social media pseudo-martyrdom. How royal to play the part of a suffering prophet.

That may be an unfair assessment of Moore's attitude and if so, forgive me but it begs me expressing such unflattering suspicion in light of what is clearly a course Moore is taking to the vehement objection of the majority of SBCer's.

It is refreshing to learn of Mefferd's grasp of the multifaceted nature of the protests against Moore. Tes, it far exceeds Donald Trump.

As I have said and We will watch, the flagship cause of Moore from now and for a while will be the humanist doctrine of multiculturalism and the promotion of the anti-spiritual reconciliation doctrine of racial reconciliation which he will seek to further impose upon the church in an exaggerated finger-wagging moral campaign which ultimately undermines and frankly, places as an impediment to, our spiritual reconciliation in Christ with one another in the church which is the only and true basis of our unity and fellowship.

Mary

Can I request prayer this morning? We're headed a funeral today of a 21 year old girl that was part of the circle my kids have grown up with. She died of a herione overdose this past Tuesday. This one's very hard and having reverberations through this group of kids (I say kids but young adults now).

peter lumpkins

Absolutely Mary. So very sorry. Praying now...

Lydia

Oh Mary, this is so tragic. A few coroners in small towns in our state have declared Heroin an epidemic. Praying for the family and friends.

Scott Shaver

Southern Baptist churches used to spend a lot of time and attention on senior adults. Now they feel as if they're persona-non-grata as part of a previous spiritually-blinded generation.

Problem is....they've still got coin.

Lydia

Oh yes Scott! This has been glaringly obvious in my former church. Many seniors have left since the takeover and I know of several who changed their legacy which had to be a wake-up call. And the ones remaining are the consistent givers so they are careful but seek to segregate groups more to contain things, which I find ironic. Millennials aren't geared toward that sort of consistent giving as much. A once thriving church is now hanging by its fingernails while the YRR on staff vacation a lot, attend conferences, travel for "missions" and have eliminated every single layman run committee, event or program. There is nothing going on there. Nothing.

It amazes me what people will put up with. But they voted them in because they trusted what they were told.

Scott Shaver

I'm in kind of a mega-church setting where the emphasis on younger and fresher may have cost some legacy giving as well. Can't really tell. One thing you can tell is the the overhead to run this place must be enormous as budget funding is being cut.

Will be interesting to see how and if the 45s and under can re-brand and retool enough to keep the "new improved" and "culturally relevant" SBC going.

Lydia

"Will be interesting to see how and if the 45s and under can re-brand and retool enough to keep the "new improved" and "culturally relevant" SBC going."

I think that is what they are trying to do. The millennials led by guys like Moore are making the same mistake they claim their parents made by getting in bed with government. Only they do it under the guise of social Gospel, globalism and religious freedom (Which would lead us to what England is doing allowing Sharia courts) in the political correctness style. Millenials, in general, are attracted to this because they lack a lot of critical thinking skills.

My parents generation tended to carefully guard the privacy of their vote. They would have dismissed anyone telling them how they should vote from any ministry position. They did not want religious instruction in public schools because they remembered the Catholic efforts in that respect --especially in rural areas where priests and nuns were often hired to teach in one room school houses and teach the authoritarianism of the universal church. It was a big problem back then in my state. In many small towns the only school was decidedly Catholic.

In important ways, Moore is worse than evangelicals he insults. Moore is all about being in bed with government except he goes far beyond trying to be an influencer. He wants to "partner" with government at the ERLC. The millenials, in general, have been indoctrinated to believe that government is the best solution to problems.

Max

"Many seniors have left since the takeover ..."

I resemble that remark! New Calvinists talk a lot about being multi-generational, but they are really only interested in two generations: Generation Xers and Millennials. Oh, the young reformers will take the Baby Boomers' money, but really don't give a big whoop about incorporating them into ministry or listening to what they have to say. The Church has always needed the wisdom of age, coupled with the energy of youth ... young folks to speed things up a bit, old folks to slow it down. When you cut 50+ out of your church model, you lose a good measure of wisdom. Good Lord, in SBC church plants and takeovers, youth groups are running things!

Scott Shaver

Max, Lydia, perhaps the SBC is morphing into a BSU.

Max

" ... perhaps the SBC is morphing into a BSU."

The denomination is certainly witnessing the power of indoctrination on the minds of our youth to turn them away from the faith of their fathers.

Alex G

So, now Mr. Piper has produced a rather posturing piece on how to livein an age of an unfit president as if the last 8 years didn't show us that, nevermind that his claim against Trump, fails, utterly.

Lydia

Alex, Pipers "personal economy" grew the last 8 years. How many people (pastors!) do you know fly a film crew to Geneva to make a retirement video --as one example!? Talk to small business people and self employed as the mountains of regulations from that admin ruined many of them. Many of them by exec order. 54 of them! I know some who have been forced into low paying jobs over Obamavcare. They can't afford his "affordable" health care.

I have a different definition of unfit. And it involves controlling people's choices like health care which needs competition not Gov control. Only blinded fools think it a good thing we have to prove to the IRS we have health insurance.

Max

"Few parents would say to their young people: strive to be like Donald Trump. That is a great sadness." (John Piper)

Well, John, it's been real sad to see our young people Piperized by New Calvinism. I tell every one I meet not to strive to be like you. Fortunately, my own children already had enough sense not to do so.

Lydia

Max, How many parents might have endorsed Driscoll and Mahaney due to Piper's endorsement and affiliation? It seems they have one standard for Presidents and one for Pastors. Weird. It seems pastors would be held to a higher standard in their world?

On another note, I have found serious credibility problems with Moore long before his vitriol against Trump voters. But it was not easy for most people to connect the dots if they were not paying attention. Moore's condescention and arrogance in the media toward a lot of people who pay his salary was glaringly obvious over the last. He is more than welcome to his own opinion on such matters--- but not as an employee. Unfortuanately, his employment and efforts at personal branding and image perception --are one and the same. Does he honestly expect people to pay him to call them racists and immoral? Yes, I think he does. It is the legacy of Al Mohler's SBC.

Scott Shaver

Wherein, then, lies the true immorality?

JND

"Most of the SBC is afraid to deal with Mohler."

Well, I'm not, but I'm so unimportant it doesn't matter what I think about the SBC's Rev. Al. I'm less than a gnat to the Great One.

Scott Shaver

Somebody needs to remind the Washington Compost and others that although Russell Moore is currently paid by Southern Baptists, he DOES NOT speak FOR Southern Baptists. Most Southern Baptists don't know who he is and a large percentage wish, like a canker sore, he'd shut up or at least speak from the standpoint of relatively cogent arguments. He can butcher scripture right up there with the best of em. Remind me of his elder brother Mohler and grand pappy Page. All of the forked-tongue crowd to be sure.

Scott Shaver

Would LOVE to see POTUS Trump send the open letter of Russell Moore back to him registered mail with a note that reads "if you can find 200k of "15 million" Southern Baptists to sign off on this thing with you, I may take the time to read it. Otherwise, it's being used for toilet paper or to festoon the bed chambers of my pet canary.

Scott Shaver

Give generously to the ERLC so that you can hasten the downhill slide of the nation. Your cooperative program dollars have never served you better?

The comments to this entry are closed.