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Jul 18, 2016

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Dr. Kyle B. Gulledge

I am reminded of Dr. Adrian Rogers great, "We don't have to get along" statement made during the heated days of the Conservative Resurgence. Thank goodness that the Luter's and Crosby's weren't around during those days, we might not have won.
These days everyone is focused on unity while doing everything seemingly possible to bring about disharmony. It's not leadership if you only surround yourself with "yes" men.

Alex Guggenheim

Moore, et al, are headed like a rocketship in the wrong direction.

Many of these are theologically unprepared men who appear unable to withstand scrutiny.

There are cases of unjust characterizations that can occur by those with a chip on their shoulder but these are not those kinds of objections. They are matters of principle.

I am convinced Russell Moore is a Trojan Horse.

Scott Shaver

Pete:

Thanks for the "whole story". Like I posted on the NOBA "blog" which posted the article, Crosby and his circle of Moore sychophants can want in one hand and spit the other to see which fills faster.

Their hypocrisy is GLARING

Didn't realize at that time that these guys were Moore supporters as part and parcel of their SBC "responsibilities.

I see Russell Moore as Al Sharpton lite.

Scott Shaver

What do Russell Moore, Hillary Clinton and Alan Cross all three have in common?

All three tweeting out childish whimperings last night while having both their hypocrisy and overt lies exposed by RNC speakers.

Would love to see Russell Moore and Sheriff David Clarke one on one instead of these fuzz-balls that usually interview Moore.

Scott Shaver

Uh Kyle:

Hate to correct you but both Crosby and Luter were around during the CR. Both supported "your" side but were both just chicken-hearted enough to avoid the fray of those battles.

They are examples of guys who gleaned the spoils of war while "avoiding the battles."

Luter served on the committee which drafted the 2000BFM and tossed out Jesus as the ultimate criterion of Biblical interpretation.

These guys preach Jesus....that is until it comes to matters of individual interpretation at which point they call for censorship of the press.

Scott Shaver

Don't sit around holding your breath for the defense of Bart Barber on this one.

That's a branded yearling.

JND

I love these calls for unity.

"You shut up and go along with me."

Charlotte Poteete

The issue of reformed theology vs. free will is just a smoke screen to cover the real issue that all of us who contribute to the Cooperative Program are now actively supporting the legal battle of Muslims to construct their mosques--and of course in the name of religious liberty. But if one has any ability to see the greater principle, we are actually assisting a satanic religion in real ways.Is religious liberty the highest value here? If we or they lose our freedom to worship, we will join the early Christians in the underground before we will join in help Baal worship. Think, Christians! What is the root principle and how can you get around this truth? Maybe by diverting the real issue.

Scott Shaver

Very good point in your own words Charlotte about ultimate causes and effects in the year 2016.

Is religious liberty the apex of Christianity or is it a condition that can only exist and flourish under a Judeo-Christian framework.

Additionally, I find it disingenuous that so many "higher thinkers" in the SBC are banging the drums of religious liberty when they've previously flushed such baptist distinctives like priesthood of THE believer and Christ as the ultimate criterion of biblical interpretation down the loo.

They're definitely having enough difficulty being "Baptist" without the added mantle of "defenders of religious liberty".

Aren't these the same guys hash-tagging "NeverTrump" and "Black Live Matter" under the lame threat of disowning "evangelicalism"?

And now they're off to the subject of religious liberty for everybody but their own kind.

Makes no sense.

Lydia

"First and most obvious is, if Hall was wrong to publicly criticize Moore or "regard" him "with suspicion," what makes Crosby right to publicly criticize Hall regarding him with suspicion? "

Because Hall is not Moore? :o)

Sorry but it how they think.

Lydia

Moore is encouraging kindness truth and grace? Seriously? Shouldn't he practice what he preaches?

And what on earth is 'defining a Gospel culture for marriage'? I double dog dare him to write about that phrase in WaPo instead of racism. Don't the lofty vague platitudes ever get old with this crowd?

But yes, all they know is censorship (unless you are a Muslim, of course, but that is good for Moore's optics)

I think we will see more non Cals jump on this bandwagon. I am sure some are starting to worry about the money drying up and retirement funds. Just forget the deception of the last 10 years or so for the sake of fake unity. We need the money for Platt and Ezell!

Lydia

"I am convinced Russell Moore is a Trojan Horse."

Would live to hear more of your thoughts on this. Moores rise never made sense to me from either a theological standpoint or even as a deep thinker. He isn't. He isn't even an ideologue. He is more of a bold propagandist. An opportunist. He is 'in your face'. Not exactly statesman like for the ELRC. But then i have always seen danger in one guy representing the SBC in that capacity. Very unbaptist!

Scott Shaver

Lot of thoughts here to ponder.

Scott Shaver

I believe we can definitely see a push of the pendulum by Moore hard away from the allegations or criticism of "racist" attitudes leveled at his predecessor, Land.

Would be interesting to know what percentage of Southern Baptists are still listening to Land today as opposed to Moore.

Anyways, I can relate to Lydia's discomfort with a one-horse baptist lobby in DC propped up by church offerings.

Robert Vaughn

One thing that seems to be fairly consistent among Southern Baptist leadership is dislike of criticism and attempts to it.

Such an attitude split the Baptist General Convention of Texas at the end of the 19th century. It is clear that one S. A. Hayden was very rancorous in his complaints about the leadership in the state association -- big names such as Truett and the Carrolls. A review of the old papers will show that his opponents was just as rancorous, but his sin was that he was not in sympathy with the leadership. R. C. Burleson of Baylor sided with Hayden -- and lost his job for it. Wealthy rancher C. C. Slaughter said, "we are determined to down that man, S. A. Hayden." And they did. For his efforts the state convention denied him a seat at the convention. They didn't like him or his freedom of the press. They were "tired of buzzard politics" and editorials against the leadership. But the leadership does need to be called in question from time to time, and give an answer to the people.

I think Hayden did a lot of stuff that was wrong. But so did the other side. The main difference in how they are remembered by Southern Baptists is that Carroll and company were "the winners".

Tom

Robert:

You said:"One thing that seems to be fairly consistent among Southern Baptist leadership is dislike of criticism and attempts to it." IMO the spirit of the CR lives on. I think the leadership message is follow them or shut up.

Scott Shaver

Well, let's follow Russell Moore's axiom in print of drawing lines and telling his following with a progressive consciousness to go sit in the lip-pointing corner with Ted Cruz.


Boy did this guy ever "sink" into mire of duplicity over what's "principle" and what's "personnel". And I was a dark-horse supporter.

Live and learn I guess.

Scott Shaver

Russell Moore, Denny Burk, Alan Cross.

What they call "Christianity" and "Gospel Issues" are really nothing more than CULTURAL MARXISM with a progressive "evangelical" flavor... and I use the term "evangelical" lightly.

Ain't saying they ain't Christian, but they are, from a biblical and Christocentric perspective, SORELY MISGUIDED.

Years ago they used to call it "spiritual immaturity".

Don't know what the buzzwords are now...but there it is.

Scott Shaver

David Crosby emphatically states that "Russell Moore is faithful to the Gospel".

Wants those of us, including newspaper editors who disagree "stopped".

There's at least one of us out here that would take issue and say that Russell Moore, under the guise of a Southern Baptist, has corrupted the "Gospel" for a shot at politcal and cultural influence which appears so far...DESTRUCTIVE to the fabric of both church and country.

In the words of Donald Trump...."not good".

Lydia

Scott, Their Gospel is not Good News. It is obeying them.

Scott Shaver

May be "good news" for them, for the rest of us its intentional obfuscation.

Janeece Bowers

In regard to freedom of speech - yes, even in the SBC - whatever happened to "You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"? It seems that there are those in "power" who seem to think that they are the ones who will declare what Truth will be and all else should be either denigrated or stopped. It takes courage to tell the truth; does this mean that we have some less than courageous leaders among us? Indeed, the pen is mightier than the sword.

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