« Majority of Baptist churches in United States in 1894 held to "evangelical anti-Augustinianism" | Main | "A soteriology without Calvinism is a path to bad religion and compromised churches." --Tom Nettles »

Nov 06, 2015

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

JND

"Southern Baptists are just too white"

Hey! I'm just like Lady Gaga. I was born that way.

Mary

I thought there were no African Americans in positions of authority in the SBC because AA tend to not be Calvinists. Now Moore admits that he, Mohler, and the other leaders are really just racists. It's good that Moore is recognizing this shameful sin in his life.

Scott Shaver

Moore obviously spent little time as a Southern Baptist pastor. If so, I don't think he ever really understood them or appreciated them. I've read this guy calling out everybody from his childhood
Sunday school teacher to Donald Trump for "racism".

Even with his pedigree I don't think Russell Moore actually knows the difference between a racist and a rabbit.

He thinks the seed bed of racism lies withi the churches he represents? Why does he hesitate to resign and hook up with the Christian denomination on the planet he thinks is doing a better job in this area. He doesn't show much confidence in the power of Christ who resides in the hearts of those he so casually chastises for their "racism".

Deal with your own guilt, Russell, and spare those of us who dropped that bag of bricks at the feet of Jesus...DECADES AGO.

You would think a person of his "caliber" and profile would see the spiritual wisdom in growing up.

Scott Shaver

If anyone has visited the campus of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville lately, can u tell us whether or not Boyce and Broadus are still adorning the halls and memorials?

If so, don't need a word from either Moore or Mohler on racism. Not after some of their public grandstanding on the issue. This is political, not spiritual.

Scott Shaver

They can't control "the religious right" with the tired rhetoric any longer so they can't keep their popularity with GOP handlers in Washington.

Divide Christians along red herring religosocial possible in hopes of affecting a vote is a desperate move.

Wonder why?

Rick Patrick

Richard Land spoke truths believed by Southern Baptists to the culture. Russell Moore speaks truths believed by the culture to Southern Baptists. I find this reversal in mission annoying. No matter the topic—prolonging white guilt, attacking the Republican front-runner, denouncing homosexual reparative therapy, or urging Roy Moore to resign rather than resist—Moore is less interested in changing the world and more interested in changing Southern Baptists. How do we place term limits on the ERLC President?

Scott Shaver

Seems best way to impose term limits are public rebuttals of his egocentric views by those he claims to represent.

Lydia

About 10 years ago, Moore's big message was that comps are wimps and we need more Patriarchy. I double dog dare him to go national with that one using his ERLC position.

the guy is going for low hanging fruit to win friends in the right places and get his name in the media.

Again, I challenge him to use his position to publicly rebuke the SBC about their comps really being wimps and that the SBC needs more patriarchy. Come on, Moore. Have you changed your mind? Or do your principles change according to the platform and audience? IOW, Moore is not a principled ideologue on doctrine. He is an opportunist.

Russ Moore: Let's see how popular you would be with the establishment hawking your Patriarchy position. (wink)

Lydia

"If anyone has visited the campus of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville lately, can u tell us whether or not Boyce and Broadus are still adorning the halls and memorials?"

Exactly. Isn't that sort of like having diversity repellent all over campus? Have Moore's principles changed from his days as Dean at SBTS but having no problem working in a place that promoted pro chattel slavers as "great men of God"? NOW he complains about the lack of diversity in the SBC? Why wasn't he concerned about this during his time at SBTS?

Is this one of those: "Just ignore the obvious", situations? Yes, it is.

Lydia

Not sure where Moore has been but things seem to have changed. Perhaps that came with promoting the SBC "Founders" pro chattel slavers as "great men of God"?

My SBC SS teacher at age 6 was an African American women. No one gave it a second thought. That sort of thing was no big deal back then as we did not have quotas-- we had relationships.

Mary

What's really funny is that over at Pravda they're having a discussion about David Barton and 'Murica not being exceptional because - racism. 'Murica evil and this and that. But these same fools are the ones who will give a pass to the SBC Founders as men of their time. That whole racism card gets played selectively by those white men who pass themselves off as superior like Moore. What I've found is that men like Moore and those white people screaming racism the loudest tend to be people who start their conversations about race "I once knew a black man." For those of us who actually lived/live in "ethnicaly diverse" neighborhoods you can tell these guys have no clue about real racism or matters regarding race. It's all just ivory tower nonsense that they read about.

Lydia

Mary, I was thinking similar but thought perhaps they were raised to see AA's as inferior so think everyone else was, too. I remember over at Pravda on this subject being told that all white people are racist even if they don't know it. This fits with the Neo Cal view of total depravity/inability and bragging about being horrible sinners. They see thus as piety. They have no volition to change. And if God does not force the change, what can be done but admit you are a racist?

As to Moore, I think he is just a hypocritical opportunist considering his stint at the pro Founders SBTS az Dean. Has he denounced Boyce yet from his ERLC platform? Or the SBC embracing Boyce to the point of naming a college after him as recently as ths 1990's?

As to the more indoctrinated followers of that movement, I think they buy into the premise because they are all about bragging about their sinner status instead of striving to live out the kingdom here and now.

A project I am working on now has an AA lead. It did not even occur to me until I read your comment. I think a focus on skin color instead of the individual IS racist.

hariette

To Rick Patrick: "Richard Land spoke truths believed by Southern Baptists to the culture. Russell Moore speaks truths believed by the culture to Southern Baptists. ...Moore is less interested in changing the world and more interested in changing Southern Baptists. How do we place term limits on the ERLC President?"
AMEN. How do we change this? selahV

Scott Shaver

"White Guilt"?

I don't HAVE ANY, my ancestors fought for the North.

And even if they didn't, I have no retroactive influence or responsibility for "the sins of the fathers". Moore can kiss-up to the culture and stay ahead of the political correctness curve to his heart's content. But he doesn't have to impugn the rest of SBs while pursuing his personal pipe-dreams and political interests.

Cultural appeasement seems to be His game, especially race-baiting in the SBC. Al Sharpton would be proud.

Alex Guggenheim

The body of Christ is a spiritual construct. It's DNA is found only in his children, those belonging to Christ via "the new birth". Paul is emphatic, we are a new spiritual species. Thus, our doctrine (thinking) and culture in this construct, the ecclesiastical construct of the body of Christ, is not humanism, it is Christ.

And Christ reveals that, diversity in the body of Christ (and be sure Paul addresses diversity) is that of what differentiates us via spiritual gifts.

There no longer is Greek nor Jew. That is, we no longer do a census in the body of Christ based on anthropological properties (race, ethnicity and so on) but spiritually, of those saved and unsaved.

Russell Moore, along with The Gospel Coalition and the co-opted SBC leadership, have bought into the tenets of the Humanist Manifestos which all teach that religion is to promote the brotherhood of man.

The church is not for that. It is to teach the adoption of man by God through faith in Christ and the fellowship of the saints.

It is Moore and company's wrongful elevation of racial, ethnic and cultural "censusing" instead of the elevation of Christ and the spiritual transformation thus, unity, of all saints, regardless of their anthropological properties that is leading to exacerbated racial, ethnic, cultural conflicts in the church and not their being subdued by the greater spiritual order of God's children.

Anthropological properties do have relevance but in an anthropological context such as marriage, family or social institutions but not one which is spiritual in its construction.

Scott Shaver

Nice Alex.
Have said all along they make the so-called "liberal/moderates" of the CR days look like also-rand in the area of "liberalism"...that's even with the whole codified Pandora's box of "inerrancy" to make sure they don't..."drift" 😜

Max

Scott wrote "... Pandora's box of "inerrancy" ..."

It should be obvious to all by now that the "Conservative Resurgence" was really a "Calvinist Resurgence" ... inerrancy may have been the battle cry, but some of the brethren had a different victory in mind. It has proven to be one of the smoothest takeovers in church history; mainline Southern Baptists hardly fired a shot as SBC entities surrendered one by one. New Calvinism has accomplished what SBC's old guard reformed could not ... Calvinization of the largest non-Calvinist denomination in America. It's the darnedest thing I've ever seen!

Lydia

Max, a lot of this focus on such popular culture low hanging fruit might be an attempt at image rehab after the national scandals of their ministry partners such as, CJ Mahaney, Driscoll and Chanlder's, "you must stay married to pedophile' discipline. They really are that bold and deceptive.

Who can argue with diversity, they ask? Of course most people reading Moores quotes in the media are not going to see the hypocrisy. They frame the discussion so if one disagrees they can accuse of them being racist. And these are what passes for SBC "scholars".

Scott Shaver

These are not scholars....they're actors.

Max

Lydia writes "And these are what passes for SBC "scholars"."

New Calvinism's superior intellect has been greatly overrated! Education (I should say indoctrination) does not produce one ounce of revelation. It's the age old battle of intellect vs. Spirit ... following teachings of men vs. being led by the Spirit. This battle of the mind has darn near taken a whole generation of young Southern Baptists. It's great to see the 20s-30s back in church, but sad to see them involved with this. When the New Calvinist masses become disillusioned with the reformed movement, it will be tough getting them to consider church again.

The comments to this entry are closed.