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Aug 10, 2014

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Wade Burleson

Peter,

You make some good points about the time line. I'm not sure when I read your piece, but it was only after I read it that I saw the apology attached to the original post. You could be absolutely right about it being 'after the weekend.' The "48 hours" may have come from Jordan himself in the phone conversation I had with him. He told me that he had also forwarded an apology to Ergun Caner through ________ (I don't know the timing). I also don't know Jordan, and my knowledge is all second hand.

My prayers for the Caners are genuine. If you could please email me an address where I can send a condolence card and a gift from my wife, I would appreciate it. Our hearts are broken for them.

Wade

Lydia

"Rather it's the object of Hall's regret which lacks authenticity. "

That was all over the last CP article, too. He has now positioned himself as the victim! The whole thing screamed of a grudging agreement to back off. This is a grown man? A pastor?

Look any grown man, let alone a pastor, who does not have the common sense to not seek out, rebuke and attempt to drive wedge between father/son should no longer have any credibility with us. Period. That goes for those piling on with him.

I am sure JD and company appreciate Wade.

peter lumpkins

Wade,

Thanks my brother. I'll check into the contact info and drop you a line.

Lord bless...

P.S. You'll notice I took the liberty to replace a name you mentioned with a blank (For the record, know I virtually NEVER mess with anyone's comment). I'm just not sure the bearer of the name would want his name left there. Also, I know for a fact (and maybe the bearer of the name will affirm this publicly if he feels it necessary) that the way JD Hall talked about apologizing for the Braxton Caner fiasco via a "friend" is hardly the way it went down. In short, there's discrepancies in JD's story, discrepancies he evidently passed along to you when you were pastoring him just as he did the paper which interviewed him. "Friend" does not at all describe the circumstances I assure.

DrJamesAch

[Peter, you may want to screenshot the link so it doesn't get removed when you post this]

Although JD Hall removed his Tweet as to when the post was modified, Dustin Germain didn't remove his retweet of it :)

dustin germain @paperhymn · Jul 7
Please note that we have updated the post "On Caner's Son" http://wp.me/p37X34-AT with an apology by @pulpitandpen

https://twitter.com/paperhymn/status/486094176908374018

The old cached URL also had a 7/7/14 date, which ironically was functional until the interview and article (Wade's) came out with the 48 hour claim. The cache has now been relieved of carrying this article in its bosom.

I don't really see why the timing matters-if he apologized, he apologized. The only reason I can see why it matters is because it has the appearance of being more meaningful when it occurs closer to the incident (a sort of res gestae)then it does with the passing of time. The further away the apology is from the incident, the more it appears that he capitulated under pressure from the negative publicity it was getting and not because he had any genuine sorrow over what he'd done. He also had quite the cheering section as well, and you can't disappoint the fan club.

I also find it comical that on 7/7/14 James White told everyone to shut up who wrote about the incident, saying it was too soon and shouldn't be discussed "It Isn't Time To Be Talking At All". THAT SAME DAY after that comment Phil Johnson posts Wade's article which James "Don't Write" White gleefully reposted. You can see the screenshots of this in Part 2 of the Braxton Caner Tragedy http://wp.me/p2K6Yn-rN (primarily a response to Wade's article with a legal analysis of Hall's responsibility and possible liability).

So I guess the "not talking" rule doesn't apply to noted Calvinist leaders, and we also get a glimpse into what James White considers a meaningful grieving period: e.g., when other Calvinists consent that it's time to go back on the offensive, which in this case, was @7 days...didn't even make it from Shiva to Shloshim.

Those familiar with how Hall's crowd treated Timothy Rogers will note at the bottom of our Part 2 article cited above how the Hall/White crowd demands something from Hall's critics that they would not give to Rogers.

______________________

By the way, I heard about your "racist" comments by "John Calvin"... I mean "Traditional Fool" ...I mean, Dustin Germain. And here I thought Phil Johnson was a white guy. Hey, at least they didn't accuse you of promoting evolution, too! And speaking of "racism", quite funny how silent all the Calvinists have been about our plight in Israel right now. Let's pray for those Christians getting killed in Iraq by ISIS, but those pesky Jews in Israel getting attacked by ISIS and Hamas? Pfffffft SILENCE from all the Cals (except for a few of the PreMils, but they're not really Calvinists :)

Barry Wohlford

Peter, I had hoped your silence after Braxton's death meant that you'd had an epiphany - that you realized that you're just as much a part of the problem as those obsessed with taking down Caner, that your online activities are not glorifying God, building the kingdom, or helping anyone at all. That you'd decided to do the Biblical, Godly thing and take down your Twitter account and your blog. Alas, I was wrong. You're still the same old unwise, Proverbs-ignoring windbag. Apparently during your period of silence you were just figuring out how you could cause as much trouble as possible.

Guest

I don't see that this blog is "as much a part of the problem" as a fool publicly engaging a 15 year old, then defending it more than once, then giving a half-hearted apology, acting like a victim.

Max

For those who haven't seen it yet, there is a related article posted today on Associated Baptist Press:

"Pastor Repents for Interaction with Suicidal Teen"

http://www.abpnews.com/ministry/people/item/29066-pastor-repents-for-interaction-with-suicidal-teen

Craig Daliessio

It becomes clearer with each passing day since this horrible tragedy that JD Hall and those who have rallied around him (I can't believe that even as I write it here) think this is all a game. That there is still some sort of scorekeeping going on. A pox on all their houses.

Mary

Max, I read JD's "repentance" over at ABP and did I miss it? Did he ever acknowledge the blog post he wrote and the comments he allowed and made in the comment stream? This wasn't just a few comments on twitter. That comment stream was full of vitriol (of course JD and Co called it "love") toward Ergun Caner, Braxton, and Braxton's girlfriend. It's astonishing that everybody wants to ignore that blog post with all it's hate and evil. But yeah let's all feel sorry for poor, poor, JD cuz he's really the victim here.

And am the only one who finds it funny that JD claims a lot of people in his church weren't aware of all his shenanigans these last several years. Talk about accountability to the people paying your salary while you're wasting your time on attacking people all over the internet.

DrJamesAch

Something to point out quickly on Hall's statement to the ABP,

"The third and last comment I made directly to him was that because of his age, I would discontinue the conversation but that he could email if , he felt so led at a later time to seek or speak truth."

That's not exactly accurate. Well, let's use James White's definition: that's a flat out lie. That's not what he said. What he actually said was,

"JD Hall ‏@PulpitAndPen 7h
@braxtoncaner89 Because of your age, I'll discontinue our convo. But if you ever want to speak or seek truth about your dad, email me."

When you leave out the "about your dad" part, sounds a little less egregious doesn't it! It's amazing how people can remember word for word, detail for detail a 3 year long debate, but can't "remember" a 140 character Tweet in a press release.

Now I'm glad to see JD at least demonstrates a little more sense than White. White's probably fuming at JD right now: "You idiot! We had the cauldrons all warmed up and the kindling dressed with the pokers in the fire...Geneva style, baby".

But hey, why do you think that nobody is taking it seriously? Because every time someone like Timothy Rogers did something silly and/or sinful, and tried to apologize, these weirdos picked apart his apology and to this day still hold it against him (even did so just today in response to one of Peter's tweets).

Eric

Drjames
You have a reason for bringing white into this conversation.
Is he associated with or has he prompted what hall did?
You have a little hatred in your heart?
Eric

Craig Daliessio

I read JD Hall's 'apology"
Jimmy Swaggart was more remorseful

peter lumpkins

Hi Barry,

Your words are embolden:

"I had hoped your silence after Braxton's death meant that you'd had an epiphany - that you realized that you're just as much a part of the problem as those obsessed with taking down Caner..." You'd hoped my silence after Braxton's death was about me? How strange. Usually when tragedy strikes a family close to us--especially when a life is gone so sadly as was Braxton Caner's--our thoughts and prayers are extraordinarily directed toward our loved ones. But you, Barry, seem to assume I should have been exclusively narcissistic. That's pretty ugly, I'd say. In addition, why would I realize I'm just as much a "part of the problem" as those who want to destroy Ergun Caner? Do you realize, Barry, how barnyard batty you sound in saying this? In essence, you're suggesting that if the counsel for the defense would just sit down and shut up, the prosecutor could do his job.

"...that your online activities are not glorifying God, building the kingdom, or helping anyone at all." I'm afraid you don't get to decide for me what glorifies God, builds the Kingdom, or helps people, Barry. That's my wife's job, thank you very much. And she says, "Butt out."

"That you'd decided to do the Biblical, Godly thing and take down your Twitter account and your blog." I think it'd just be peachy if you'd grace us all by demonstrating how it would be "biblical" and "godly" to take down my social media. Know I warn you, however. If you quote and misuse Scripture in any way as you proceed, we will make sure we crack every hermeneutical egg you lay before we're through. Now cackle away if you dare- CLICK

"Alas, I was wrong. You're still the same old unwise, Proverbs-ignoring windbag. Apparently during your period of silence you were just figuring out how you could cause as much trouble as possible." Indeed you were wrong, Barry. Whatever possessed you to think that you might get something right about me? To my knowledge, you've never engaged any ideas I've logged. Instead, like so many other internet aficionados, you gripe and complain about the blog host without ever once logging healthy contributions. Why, just ask Dr. James Ach. Ironically, you log onto his site trying to dig out every dirty detail you can about Braxton's death. Have you ever considered voyeurism is hardly a suitable pass-time for believers. Fact is, James finally had to tell you to 'get lost."

Now you come here to just...well, cackle


With that, I am...


Peter 

Barry Wohlford

Proverbs 9:8

"Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you...."

My bad. I confess I should have read this verse before posting.

I honestly don't see any of the Love of Christ or Wisdom of God at all in you, in what you say online. I would encourage you to get in the Word and read what God has to say about getting along with people and living in peace with people as much as is possible. And what Jesus said about walking two miles, and turning the other cheek. Your actions and words reflect poorly not on just yourself but also the institution you work for.

Bye.

peter lumpkins

Barry,

Quoting a Proverb to suit your ends without also showing how the Proverb applies is nothing more than what the Devil did to Jesus in the temptation narratives in the Synoptic Gospels. Hence, you're exploiting God's Word for your own personal advantage, a practice I'd reconsider were I you.

Reconsider also that if you want to be taken seriously, then offer serious contributions to a comment thread rather than personal vindictives against people.

Have a nice day.

With that, I am...
Peter

Craig Daliessio

"A stiff apology is a second insult... The injured party does not want to be compensated because he has been wronged; he wants to be healed because he has been hurt." G. K. Chesterton

John Waller

Peter

Your opening paragraph could leave some with the impression that it was Hall you quoted as calling his own campaign "muckraking".

I am sure you would want to make it clear to your readership that this was a CP quote and not said by Hall?

peter lumpkins

John,

Thanks for your concern.

The Christian Post: "A Baptist preacher...suggested that he has decided to stop pursuing a decade-old muckraking campaign against Braxton's father, Ergun."

My summary of the Christian Post: "According to an article in the Christian Post, Hall reportedly said he had "decided to stop pursuing a decade-old muckraking campaign against Braxton's father, Ergun."

Comparing the two statements, I am not the one implying Hall decided to do X. Rather the author of the Christian Post is. I only followed what the reporter wrote.

Thanks.

With that, I am...
Peter

Scott Shaver

I read the most recent apology of JD Hall. I'm sure the man is hurting but he still tends rewrite fact and history even in his apologies.

Case in point is Hall mention of defending 3 professors at Louisiana College who were dismissed for "holding to biblical beliefs".

There was a lot more to that situation than mere "biblical beliefs" and Hall knows that.

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