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Oct 10, 2013

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Scott Shaver

It like Ground Hog Day IMO:

Unbelievably arrogant of Mohler even should Mahaney not be found liable for any "direct" involvement.

Clearly conveys the following attitude:

This will blow over and we'll be back to business as usual in the training camps of Louisville ... all with the continued support and branding of Southern Baptists.

Let's go ahead and put it on the calendar boys.

Scott Shaver

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has been a city under siege for the last twenty years.

Is it slander for me to print that opinion?

Mary

Scott, the rule is that the Calvinists make all the rules and own all definitions. So pretty much anytime anyone says anything negative about the YRR or one the elite than yes it's slander and you must be silence with attacks against you're intelligence and questions as to your election/nonelection. If you're a woman you will get the "poor little woman shouldn't try understanding subjects as complicated as logic and history and should not utter any multisyllabic words."

hariette

Peter, it says, they do not care what we think. that is what it says. and it says they do not want my money to support them any longer. and it says that I need to get the word out so others will understand what their money is supporting. so, it says more than they think. to me, anyway. selahV

Max

"The Together for the Gospel group rewrote its history leaving out any reference to C.J.Mahaney as one of the founding members."

Yes, the TGP founders are now referred to as "four friends" ... now nameless before the world and not tainted by one of its own facing sexual abuse allegations. For the historical record, before it fades into obscurity, the four friends = Calvinist notables and YRR icons Al Mohler, Ligon Duncan, Mark Dever ... and C.J. Mahaney. If these folks accept that the Gospel = Calvinism, then it stands to reason that they would remain friendly and stick together for Calvinism through thick and thin. After all, the YRR movement is gaining momentum under their influence - why stop being friends now?! Ministerial integrity demands that SBC leaders keep a distance from Mahaney until the courts settle this thing - with the same expected integrity requiring Mahaney to remove himself from speaking engagements. (but that obviously ain't going to happen - and the beat goes on)

Lydia

SGM Pastors college

".....including our degree completion program with SBTS, reduced costs for students and churches...."

I do know that college degrees were not the norm for the SGM pastors college participants in the past. (The pastors 'college' for SGM has typically been 9 mos long for whomever was chosen to attend)

I know that Mahaney never completed college nor Josh Harris as that has been the case for quite a few pastors in PDI/SGM over many years.

So I am really wondering about "the degree completion program with SBTS". Are these credits for Boyce or grad school level courses? How is it delivered? Is SGM approving which classes for their participants? Are we delivering customized education for SGM pastors?

And are SGM pastors college particpants receiving the same reduced tuition as SBC students? Are there SGM folk working at SBTS in any paid capactiy.

Max

Lydia - Wouldn't you think that SBTS trustees have asked Dr. Mohler those questions ... surely?

On the flag of the great State of Kentucky, you will find these words:"United We Stand - Divided We Fall". On another plain, "United We Fall" is an eternal law that plays itself out when unity stretches itself where it shouldn't. Wait.

Tim Rogers

Peter,

Well, maybe we just need to ask the Trustees at SEBTS the reason this is going on.

SOUTHEASTERN BAPTIST THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY
P.O. Box 1889
Wake Forest, North Carolina 27588-1889

Daniel L. Akin, President
Ed Litton, Chairman

State Members

Term Expiring 2014

Alabama: Harry Edward (Ed) Litton, Jr., 1251 Industrial Pkwy., Saraland 36571

Indiana: Douglas L. Jividen, 11383 9A Rd., Plymouth 46563

Michigan: George B. A. Fountain, 2895 Sharon Dr., Monroe 48162

Pa-So Jersey: Erik G. Estep, 11 Winding Wood Ct., Blythwood, 29016

Term Expiring 2015

Illinois: *Becky L. Gardner, 15 Country Ln., East Peoria 61611

Oklahoma: Jeremy Freeman, 3421 Brierwood, Newcastle 73065

Maryland-Delaware:*Brian A. Akers, 3878 Colwyn Dr., Jarrettsville, MD 21084

Virginia: J. Michael Palmer, 5933 Byron Cir., Roanoke 24019

Term Expiring 2016

Kansas-Nebraska: Jerry A. Smith, 14789 SW Anemone Rd., Rose Hill, KS 67133

Mississippi: *J. Stacy Davidson, 905 Luckney Rd., Brandon 39047

Missouri: Jason Allen, 18820 E. 24th St. S., Independence 64057

Nevada: Jeremy E. Dollar, 8600 W. Charleston Blvd. #1001, Las Vegas 89117

Term Expiring 2017

Arkansas: R. E. Clark, 122 Skinner St., Centerton 72719

Colorado: David E. Brown, 6819 Otis Ct., Arvada 80003

New Mexico: Alan W. McAlister, 633 Anthony Dr., Clovis 88101

Ohio: *Thomas S. Mach, 1819 Harris Ln., Xenia 45385

Term Expiring 2018

California: Israel Kim, 36 Salton, Irvine 92602

Georgia: *Joe Forrester, 4320 Clack Road, Auburn 30011

Kentucky: Todd A. Linn, 307 Center St., Henderson 42420

North Carolina: *Albert E. (Earle) Finley, 6001 Tenter Banks Sq., Raleigh 27609

Local Members

Term Expiring 2014

Charles M. Jacumin, 5216 Birchleaf Dr., Raleigh, NC 27606

*Donald L. Warren, 2992 Elder Ct., Gastonia, NC 28054

Term Expiring 2015

Chester H. (Sonny) Holmes, Jr., 8062 Shadow Oak Dr., North Charleston, SC 29406

Richard E. (Dick) Baker, 616 Edwin Dr., Virginia Beach, VA 23462

Term Expiring 2016

*Christopher J. Griggs, P. O. Box 383, Denver, NC 28037

*Henry G. Williamson, Jr., 164 Orchard Park Dr., Advance, NC 27006

Term Expiring 2017

*Charles H. Cranford, 4514 Cotton Creek Dr., Charlotte, NC 28226

*James R. Marston, Jr., 309 Greenwell Ct., Lynchburg, VA 24502

Term Expiring 2018

*Melinda W. Delahoyde, 4601 Wee Burn Trl., Raleigh, NC 27612

Daniel G. Godfrey, 1430 Highway 11 W, Chesnee, SC 29323

Paula Rice

Hi Lydia! You asked, "Are there SGM folk working at SBTS in any paid capactiy?"

Bob Kauflin, CJ Mahaney's right hand man who left Covenant Life Church under very questionable circumstances with his entire family to help plant Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville with Mahaney and is employed as the Director of Sovereign Grace Music, has a son Devon Kauflin, who regularly leads worship at SBTS seminary chapel services and other events. Apparently he is a student at SBTS and leads the Norton Hall Band. He is also employed with SGM Music, listed as an artist & a vocalist on their website http://sovereigngracemusic.org/Artists and was a speaker at SGM's Worship God 2013 East (WGE13) conference. According to the video of the Norton Hall Band on the SBTS website (which the SBTS's "Division of Biblical Worship School of Ministry" produced), the Norton Hall Band is available for "booking" by contacting Dr. Joe Crider, Professor of Music and Worship, and SBTS's Senior Associate Dean. http://www.sbts.edu/resources/uncategorized/norton-hall-band/

Devon Kauflin will also be leading worship (a paid position I assume) at SBTS's Expositor's Summit this month Oct. 29-31 featuring Al Mohler, which I saw advertised on the "Lifeline Children's Services" website: http://lifelinechild.org/sbts-conference-on-preaching/

According to the Worship God 2013 East Conference's Website, at which Devon Kauflin also led worship, his bio reads: "Devon is currently working on his MDiv with a focus in Worship Leadership at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. He regularly leads worship at the seminary chapel services and other events with Norton Hall, a band comprised of Southern students. Over the last 9 years, Devon has led at numerous Sovereign Grace Ministries conferences and has participated as a vocalist, arranger, and guitarist on several Sovereign Grace Music recordings. Devon currently resides in Louisville, KY and serves at Sovereign Grace Church of Louisville."

Bob Kauflin wrote, concerning the conference (WGE13) "The conference took place at Highview Baptist Church, East Campus. I can’t say enough...It was like they were putting the conference on." http://www.worshipmatters.com/2013/08/07/thoughts-on-worshipgod-east-called-to-be-faithful/

There's no doubt SGM and the SBTS has forged a close bond, especially in the area of music and worship at the seminary, with SGM's Devon Kauflin (among others) benefiting from the stages, job opportunities and conference venues the SBTS and SBC churches are generously providing them - for profit.

CASEY

MAX....the truth is that the trustees at SOUTHERN haven't asked the proper questions. One trustee there said to me, "I'm here for Al." Really? Well when Al gets intimately involved with the SBC-Comm. on Nominations, follows the process, picks his own Board, sees that they get renominated, and that the 'pool' is from Reformed Churches....is there any wonder that the trustees act like simply "Yes men"? These trustees have forgot their purpose...rather than being men/women of accountability they are 'robotic cheerleaders'. SAD. This road we're on is so predictable to its end.....failure...unless Southern Baptists rise up and say, "No more."

Max

" ... unless Southern Baptists rise up and say, "No more.""

Casey, the sad truth is that the majority in the pew have no clue what is going on. Asleep in Zion. Non-reformed SBC pastors at the majority of SBC's 45,000+ churches are not having "family talks" to inform their congregations about the train heading their way. SBC identity in belief and practice is in the process of being changed and the pew is not fussing about it because they are uniformed, misinformed or willingly ignorant. The front line (the local church) will not rise up because the local pastors have not risen up! There comes a time when it's time for pastors to contend as well ... "high time" has past, we're now nearly out of time. The next generation (the one the YRR are after) are being trained to do the work of the ministry Mohler-style. The window was briefly opened to halt this advance via Dr. Page's Calvinism Committee ... that window is not closed. The only confrontation is in the blogosphere by a handful of grassroots Southern Baptists who have been deemed crazy cousins. Weary and out-numbered, about down for the last count ... But God!

Lydia

Paula, Thanks for the detailed info. I did not know all that about Bob Kauflin's son. I suppose the SBC is lacking in such talent that can be quite profitable?

I also saw something on Kauflin's site a while back about some partnering with SBTS but am not sure of the content.

Do you know anything about CJ's son in law (I beleive his last name is Whiteacre or soemething like that) at SBTS? It was reported on sgmsurvivors that he was given some sort of job at SBTS while attending there. I believe the son in law worked at one of the SGM churches and left when CJ fled Maryland to Louisville "to plant a church near the seminary".

One has to wonder how many SBC'ers will be glad to know they are providing work for those that fled SGM Maryland who are not even SBC.

Scott Shaver

Hey Tim Rogers:

I believer the word we're looking for here is SYCOPHANT as opposed to TRUSTEE.

Thanks for the list.

Scott Shaver

I understand now from Jason Allen SEBT that if we received "preMohler" degrees from a Southern Baptist Seminary we're not fit to "teach his kids in Sunday School."

The history of the SBC is now only 20 years old unless you add the years of Broadus, Boyce and Manley.

How's that for Calvinistic confidence in the Holy Spirit's work of individual sanctification? And how does it reconcile with ever-changing platforms of spiritual accountability/ authority within in a denominational structure or in a local church (if church members dumb enough to swallow that model)?

Not to mention that biblical theology has been tossed for theological interpretation of scripture. It's all the rage you know for the advancement of the "gospel". Whatever that is.

Give me a break. This is "ORTHODOXY"?

Here's the link to pontif Allen. Sadly, he doesn't write like he's either connected or proud of a great number of "Southern Baptists".

http://jasonkallen.com/2013/10/happily-proudly-wholeheartedly-southern-baptist/

Scott Shaver

Suggested name changes for both Southern and Southeastern seminaries under one banner.

NADAB & ABIHU U

*disclaimer: In jest for thin-skinned Calvinists.

Scott Shaver

Allow me to correct my typos. Jason Allen is president of Midwestern so the name change under one banner would include all three seminaries.

Steven

I left the SBC in 1988. The denomination is reaping the whirlwind it sowed when the fundamentalists took over the reins in the 1980's. Look upon this as the continuing saga of power hungry men bent on making a golden calf of their questionable theology and darkening hearts.

Max

Thanks Scott for pointing out the article by Jason Allen. Interesting terminology to refer to flagship seminary graduates as "pre-Mohler." I envision some future Baptist historian measuring Mohlerization of this once great denomination in two eras: "pre-Mohler" and "post-Mohler." Living pre-Mohler graduates of the flagship will now have to bear this label for the rest of their days, hanging their heads in shame while awaiting their predestined fate. Fireside chats about those who have come and gone will now include "It's so sad - he was pre-Mohler you know." Oh, but what awaits post-Mohler graduates? What has been elected to mark their journey? Only time will tell. The thought makes my head swim about other seminary graduates: pre-Allen vs. post-Allen; pre-Akin vs. post-Akin; pre-Mahaney vs. post-Mahaney, etc.

Those of us of Conservative Resurgence age have a sense of what Dr. Allen is referring to regarding "some" teaching at Southern and "some" graduates of that institution prior to the great reformer ... but should we mark the moment in such terms?

JND

"If I recall correctly, when the now faintly remembered Conservative Resurgence began, it began with charges toward what was going on in our seminaries."

Yep.

Kim

New line up of Speakers for conference at SEBTS on Feb 7-8

We invite you to join us at the 20/20 conference that will feature plenary speakers Daniel Akin, Matt Carter, Dhati Lewis, Tony Merida and Russell D. Moore. We will also have a host of other gifted teachers in our breakout sessions, who will address a number of issues related to Ekklesia.

Scott Shaver

Thanks Kim:

Guess we'll have to wait until after the conference for confirmation of who the "other gifted teachers" were in the breakout sessions.

peter lumpkins

Thanks Kim. I just put a short piece up...

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