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Aug 06, 2012

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Steve Evans

Peter, I have been reading the posts over at voices and find it sad that they have so insulted you. I also sent a post to Mr. Stetzer asking why the double standard but have received no response. I did not really expect one but thought I would try. I did manage to get a post in there concerning young Mr. Merritt and made a recommendation for him to step aside to regain trust that had been broken. Please know that your voice is one that need not be hindered or hushed in any way. Keep the faith, brother.

peter lumpkins

Steve,

Thanks brother. I'm afraid it will forever remain impossible to get any type of neutral treatment from the SBC Voices community. Remember, it's guys like Marty Duren who's routinely commenting over there. And, now that Duren is a Lifeway employee, he carries “credibility” to the blogsite. He works for and/or with Ed Stetzer. And, to get a picture of just how Marty Duren feels about me, check it out here. He wrote this a little while before going to work with Stetzer.

With that, I am…

Peter

Mary

Peter, it's astounding to me that so-called minisers of the Gospel are willing to overlook the sin of Jonathan Merritt simpl because of who he is and who you are. Jonathan Merritt got caught in sin and hiding his sin for years all the while lecturing others on how we should deal with his sin but these men who are supposed to be leaders of churches care more about attacking you than calling sin sin. Jonathan Merritt is not a victim. He was hiding his sin and he got caught and it embarrassed him and the elites in the SBC. We have serius leadership issue when a such a public person, a person held out as a "young leader" gets a pass on his sin and gets idolazied for having been caught.

This is what SBC Voice is standing for. Idolizing a sinner because he's on their team and the person thy loathe and despise was the messenger.

Steve Evans

If that is the same Marty Duren who works with music, as a Minister of Music, I'll make sure not to support Lifeway in buying of his arrangements!

Steve Evans

Oops, wrong Marty Duren...........should've done my homework before I posted.

peter lumpkins

Yeah. I was going to mention that. But you caught it before I could mention it.

Lord bless, Steve.

With that, I am...
Peter

peter lumpkins

Mary,

Yes, they are obviously attempting to cover it over. I'm convinced it is going to come back and bite them. They will, in the end, regret, writing their spin.

With that, I am...
Peter

Lydia

Peter, what they are attempting to do and have been trying to do for a while now is marginalize you so it sends messages to anyone else who would dare stand up to them. You are being made an example. It works. Most people will shrink away from taking them on in any real way to expose their lack of thinking and Nicolaitan tendancies.

Now they are claiming, in their pedantic way, you don't care about child molestation only homosexuality. Right. Are we dealing with 13 year old boys? Sometimes I think we are in their emotional development.


What you were doing was showing how Setzer has "selective outrage". He actually "coddled" Merritt Jr.(who lived a lie for several years until he was outed) who is making a living in ministry SBC wide and we now see was a fraud. That does not bother Setzer at all. He sought to protect Merritt from any fallout. They all are by attacking you.

Yet Setzer had "outrage" for Schaap who is actually a cult leader. At least some leaders in that cult made him step down. We cannot say the same for our leaders, can we? We can only say they sought to coddle and protect a celebrity
SBC'er who was living a lie and taking money from the pew sitters. That seems to be ok with them. That pretty much sums it up. (Not to mention it must be embarassing for all those leaders who were silly enough to sign the environmental manifesto and grant him interviews on homosexuality that are published on Huffpo)

Merritt is SBC and trying to build a celeb profile. Schaap was the leader of an IFB cult started by Hyles. He is not ours to deal with but we can sure beg people to get out of that cult. And the guy is a bonafide creep. The whole place up there is a huge cult.

The problem is, Schaap's heinous sin does not negate Jonathan Merritt living a lie while in ministry and promoting himself within the SBC with manifestos, public articles, etc. That is the truth the boys do not want to hear so they change the subject to marginalize you instead.

You are their whipping boy.


Jeremy Crowder

I said here in another discussion and at SBC Voices the same thing. Peter did nothing wrong it was simply posting a news worthy item that turned out to be true. This is a Baptist blog as such people should expect news to occasionaly make it on the blog about Baptists. Well it's newsworthy when a Baptist Johnathan M. is a writer for major publications on an issue and someone claims to be able to expose them on that issue with proof. I feel bad for Johnathan M. though I'd never heard of him until I saw his name on this blog and the whole bad situation. That being said Peter only played the part of a journalist.

Jennifer S

Peter,

This situation with Jonathan does not make any sense. I did a google search on Jonathan Merritt and found a new interiview by Azariah Southworth saying that Stetzer and Jonathan are wrong on the facts "Big Time ". The radio interview is at www.zackfordblogs.com and then click on Jonathan Merritt. Start at the nine minute mark and Southworth actually says Stetzer and Jonathan's story is wrong. If and I say "If " Azariah's story is true then Stetzer and Jonathan need to come clean and it seems people may want to apologize to you. If Azariah is right again then Stetzer and Jonathan have some "Big Time " explaining to do.

peter lumpkins

Jeremy

Thanks brother for your support. And, I appreciate very much your participation here.

Lord bless.

With that, I am...
Peter

Max

Peter - Your writings represent the heart of a multitude of silent "SBC Voices" ... majority Southern Baptists who would stand with you on the essentials of your reporting, but yet not engaged in the critical issues at hand (a group which better wake up soon). The movers & shakers in the SBC reformed movement should consider a time out for their youngsters over at that "other" blog, lest they become too visible and lose their momentum by exposing arrogance and agenda.

There weren't any time outs when I acted up as a kid. My folks preferred knock outs and black outs! Keep flushing them out Peter. Truth can never be timed out.

Mary

This whole PRAVDA debacle proves a couple of things about PRAVDA and those posting there. All the self-righteous, sanctimonous talk is just a farce - the evidence is what they allow to be linked to in the thread. If PRAVDA really had some sort of "edification" standard that nonsense would have been condemned and deleted, but since it's nonsense against those PRAVDA is against it's allowed to stand for more people to see.

And look at the semantical hoops Unity Roberts is now jumping through to vilify Peter. Merritt isn't gay so what Peter wrote was wrong and gossip and evil blah, blah, blah. Let's see what was Merritt and Mohler were telling us about "lying" about the nature of homesexuality? Not understanding homsexuality. Well good news Chris Roberts knows everything there is to know now about homosexuality - his implication seems to be that Merritt just out of the blue one day decides to engage in online and at least one physical homosexual act, but Merritt was able to turn off the switch and POOF just like that Merritt is "cured" so how ridiculous is it for anyone to think there's any truth to the claim that Merritt is at the very least what the world might term "bisexual" For Merritt to claim he doesn't "identify" as gay and for someone like Chris Roberts to just accept that shows who truly are lying about the nature of homosexulity. And thus the reason why this should be a big deal - the man who was telling us all how we should deal with homosexuality is now doing exactly what he denounced the SBC for doing - showing a clear lack of understanding about the nature of homosexuality. Of course Merritt understands better than anyone - it's not as easy as declaring himself "not gay" but it's good PR and allows Unity Roberts the joy of attacking those he despises.

peter lumpkins

Max,

Thank you brother for your kind words. I always appreciate your contributions here. There are millions like us I agree. And, we will continue to speak on themes which I think will be helpful to them.

With that, I am...
Peter

Cathy Mickels

Peter,

As you know, for years I worked on many different conservative, pro-family issues. Until one day,... I stumbled on curricula for Christian youth that sounded like it had been written by the head of the liberal teacher's union. As a result, I started researching and discovered that major Christian publishers were marketing material for Sunday School and Christian youth groups based on the SAME philosophies and mindset of the liberals.

Knowing these teaching techniques and tools were sure to backfire, my focus changed and a book was written to WARN Christians. HOWEVER, I learned very quickly that warning Christians was dangerous and painful territory. For sure, I was not prepared for the indifference and at times open hostility.

I learned first hand that far too many of our so-called leaders have become compromisers and care more about being invited to come speak at the latest conference than earnestly contending for the faith. What a racket all these conferences have become.


Therefore, Peter,.... I want to add my encouragement to you. I thank God there are still men like you, who are not afraid to call into question the direction some of our so-called leaders appear willing to take the Church of Jesus Christ.


Max

Cathy Mickels speaks volumes when she says "I learned first hand that far too many of our so-called leaders have become compromisers and care more about being invited to come speak at the latest conference than earnestly contending for the faith. What a racket all these conferences have become."

When you add maximizing book and video sales to that equation, you set up a compromise system where religious celebrities flow to where it is happening in American Christendom. And right now, New Calvinism is "the" place to be to merchandise yourself and your stuff. Their leaders quote each other, endorse each other's books, strut on the same speaking platforms, and whatever it takes to cultivate and perpetuate their following.

Unlike Peter, some of the bloggers are being stroked by SBC elites to protect their interests. The bloggers think they are running with the big dogs, when they are actually being used by them. What a sad state of affairs!

peter lumpkins

Cathy,

Your encouragement means more than you can know. Thank you, my sister in Christ. May the Lord continue to use you in effective Christian ministry.

With that, I am...
Peter

peter lumpkins

Max

You hit it perfectly--"some of the bloggers are being stroked by SBC elites to protect their interests. The bloggers think they are running with the big dogs, when they are actually being used by them."

And, for the record, contrary to the spew at voices, I have no elites--former or present--who direct me in any form whatsoever on this site. None. Well, I did have an academic who is a friend call me up and paddle me really good for a satire I put up a few months back. He bent my nose off my face insisting I only do what he said I do best--put out the straight-forward facts as I see them, make reasonable inferences, and leave others to make up their own mind. In his words, I needed to stop being a comic no matter how good I thought I might be.

Constructive criticism like that perhaps (I've not put up a satire since. And I probably won't...). But absolutely no one attempts to use my blog as a megaphone for their own interests. I don't run with guys like that. We couldn't get along. I'd insist they stay out of my business and go get their own blog :^)

Grace, brother.

With that, I am...
Peter

Lydia

"Unlike Peter, some of the bloggers are being stroked by SBC elites to protect their interests. The bloggers think they are running with the big dogs, when they are actually being used by them. What a sad state of affairs!"

Max, you have articulated something I have been reluctant to mention because nobody believes it until it happens and even then is it rarely provable because of the methods employed. I saw this all the time. When and if the heat becomes too hot, those followers outfront carrying the banner high for their favorite icons are almost always sacrificed for that celebs career if need be.

The atmosphere is very different the higher up in the stratosphere one goes. It is quite the shock to find your favorite icon is not nearly as resolute on a position as you thought they were when it comes to their career being threatened. I have seen many loud foot soldiers sacrificed in my day. For some it just means not being invited to the inner sanctum anymore. For others, worse.

Max

Lydia writes " ... nobody believes it until it happens and even then is it rarely provable ..."

Lydia, I'm hesitant to say it this way, but ... well ... I see things ;^). The YRR will scream "show me", "prove it", "give me names and places". The dots are being connected and will be clear enough to others soon. I'm not dropping names to make a case. This deception will be revealed by the Father and in His time. Multitudes of young folks caught up in this thing are deceived; unfortunately, the problem with deception is that you don't know you are deceived because you are deceived. A generation is at stake. When the "movement" passes, Southern Baptists will have a real mess on their hands to clean up.

Donald

Hey Peter, keep up the good work!

FYI, over at SBCVoices one guy said about you: "…if anyone has the audacity to disagree with him, he and his female lieutenants attack…"

Where can I get me some female lieutenants? They seem to scare the bejeebers out of Those People! LOL

peter lumpkins

Donald,

It is kinda funny.

Even so, the fact is, both Lydia and Mary are studied, experienced, and have a measure of self-confidence not to be found amongst the masculine, high-testosterone, be-a-man's-man community spawned by Driscoll et al's extreme complementarianism. Neither of them readily buy what so many of the YRR sell--untested ideas (including but limited to theological ideas) they get from the latest, greatest conference they just attended or recommended book they just bought that made the grade of the "panel discussion" by the same tiny circle of like-minded prophets. In short, the idea or assertion presented here must pass through the "lieutenants'" finely cut critical glass. This becomes quite offensive to those (like many of them) who are taught an extreme, unbiblical view of Elder authority. Thus, it may literally frighten them to death!

Hence, it's no wonder the inexperienced boys over there refer to some of the ladies here as "female lieutenants." Truth be told, I don't know a regular over there--including the recent Lifeway duo, Stetzer and Duren who grace the blog with their presence quite frequently now...not to mention the editor or owner himself--who could actually go toe-to-toe with either of my "lieutenants."

What a Georgia hoot!

With that, I am...
Peter

Max

Speaking of "female lieutenants", can anyone provide input on the theological leaning of Beth Moore? Her books/videos are highly promoted by LifeWay ... she appears to be one of few female teachers blessed by the YRR - "their women" attend her simulcasts and conferences in great number ... and she shares the stage with John Piper at the annual Passion Conference http://268generation.com/passion2013/about/who/

Are her teachings slanted in a particular theological direction or would she be considered neutral in the current SBC debate? There is no doubt that she is the "go to" teacher for Southern Baptist women.

peter lumpkins

Max

I have to be honest. I've never read more than a paragraph from Beth Moore. So I'd hardly know how to even comment. Perhaps others will offer a reasoned perspective.

With that, I am...
Peter

selahV

Oh my goodness, Max. You have opened a vein now. Just wait til Lt.Lydia shows up.

Any person who shares the stage with Piper more than likely, I would think, is Calvinistic in beliefs. selahV

selahV

Donald, I can't really blame Cal for his reluctance to stay here if he is at odds with Lts. Mary and Lydia. They kinda scare me, too. :) selahV
BTW...did you ever get an answer from Chris?

Donald

Max: On Beth Moore, I will say that my Systematic Theology prof said once (SEBTS in 2003) that should he ever teach a class on exegetical fallacies he would use her material.

selahV: No, Chris Roberts would never supply any substantiation to his charge that Peter co-accused Merritt of being gay.

Jennifer S

People need to listen to the interview with Azariah Southworth at www.zackfordblogs.com. Southworth clearly states that Jonathan Merritt's story on Stetzer's blog is False. He says Jonathan has been with more men plus the dates are wrong and there was no dinner but they attended bars and got drunk but I will not mention the rest of what he said. Someone is lying to the people of the SBC on a SBC blog. If Jonathan told the same story to his church that he told the people of the SBC on Stetzer's blog then (Southworth said he lied). My concern is the following: Why would Stetzer put this on an official SBC Blog, Jonathan is not a hero....He got caught lying and now Southworth is saying he is still lying....Is this repentance by Jonathan, Did he lie to Stetzer, Did he lie to his church again, Did his father know that he was gay ? Jonathan said he is not gay but Southworth said he is not the only guy that Jonathan has been with so how many men does Jonathan have to be with before he is gay ? Something is not right with Jonathan's story.

Mary

Jennifer, TRUTH doesn't matter to the SBC elite. Stetzer allowed Merritt his "I've sinned but it's not really my fault cuz childhood" on his blog because that's the way the elites decided to handle this PR debacle. This isn't a story about repentance and mercy and the power of God to help us overcome sin. This is about power in the SBC. There are a few pawns who fall for all the memes the elite want them to fall for, but at the top levels of the SBC this is about how to stifle this story as quickly as possible and how to make the messengers and the peasants who are saying "whoah hold on here a minute" look mean and vicious and attack their Christianity. There's a war in the SBC right now. It has nothing to do with doctrine, with right or wrong, with sin. It has to do with power hungry men who don't want to be reminded that they chose the side of a man who now has fallen very publically. Jonathan Merritt was supposed to be the "expert" on how we deal with homosexuality - his expert opinion was that we should stop talking about it because we're all liars. Now we see a little more why he thinks like that. Stetzer's message to the peasants was "you talk about this and you may not be a Christian" The elites have decided and the message was sent through Stetzer. This is settled as far as the elites in the SBC are concerned and you're a horrible person if you don't agree with the elites.

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