« "Everybody knows there's no real problem with aggressive Calvinism in the SBC, don't they?" Not if we believe Dr. Frank Page by Peter Lumpkins | Main | What's the matter, cat got ya tongue? by Peter Lumpkins »

Oct 20, 2011

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Rather divisiveness between Calvinists and non-Calvinists stems in part from men with little to no integrity who attempt to sneak into churches unawares with a specific but unexpressed agenda to convert a non-Calvinist church to the "reformed" faith...

Ok, you have probably said as much before and I missed it, but up til this point I wasn't sure what you saw as the problem with Calvinist. As a 5 pointer who was in the SBC til about 2 years ago when my family and I started going to a non-denominational church (not because I didn't like the SBC, but we had some close friends going there--long story) who has recently come back into the SBC, I've wondered just exactly what you and others meant when you talked about a problem with Calvinists. Totally get it now.

I would also agree that any pastor who has an agenda to change a church like that and doesn't state said agenda so that the parties making the decision whether to call him are informed has done wrong

Regardless of what side of the fence you are on, integrity should be expected in Christian ranks. While the fence may separate, it should also protect. Church folks should never be surprised by the theological persuasion of its current leadership or historical leaning of a given church. As a non-Calvinist, I too applaud Dr. Hagrave’s honesty to “unashamedly, boldly, and clearly identify themselves for all to see.” A local young SBC pastor just painted “Reformed” on his church sign … the right thing to do. Stealth and deception should never be used to secure pulpits. Just tell me who you are and I can exercise my free will. You’ll always know who I am.

Strange indeed, since Page has BP under his direct control. If he thinks there is a paucity of discussion on the divide between Calvinism and non-Calvinism in the SBC, he could easily start the discussion through BP.

But, until then and on a wide range of issues that BP eschews, we will have to rely on ABP for news.

William,

I think you're right. The truth is, I'm wondering how this is going to go down when (and/or if) BP does attempt to mention it. Will it suggest he did not mean it the way some have taken it (i.e. those of us who exploited his words to show an obvious problem in the SBC)? Or, will it just let a friendly "reformed" advocate kinda brush his words aside? What I think they obviously won't do is what many did to Chapman in 2009--jerk him around.

With that, I am...
Peter

It appears that Baptist Press was covering the wrong “ism” at a time when Dr. Page’s interview with SBC Today should have been a leading article. I suppose it is BP’s intent to not report information which is divisive and disconcerting (Dr. Page’s concern), but there is only so long a mountain can remain a molehill. Squelching such news is not helpful. Thank you Peter for your efforts to keep the grassroots informed in the absence of BP coverage on this issue.

Joe,
I'm glad you "get it." To many People have misread our dear brother for too long. This is all he has been saying all along. I, as one who leans more to the reformed side than he, surely appreciate the work he has and is doing. In fact, I think it has done much to help me think my theology through more carefully than to simply cling to Calvin's construction.

Peter...Kudos

Chris,

I appreciate it brother. I think our relationship demonstrates nicely I'm not a "reformed"-hater maniac looking for ways to trash Calvinists. Too, it demonstrates Reformed leaning brothers are not all aggressive Calvinists itching to "reform" non-Calvinist churches with non-Calvinist roots (that would be you, my friend).

Hence, we cannot stand by and watch as aggressive Calvinists needlessly assault a rich heritage in SBC life which has consciously chosen a fully biblical theological vision consistent with a robust biblio-Christian heritage.

Grace, brother. Perhaps coffee sometime soon...

With that, I am...
Peter

Unless I missed it somewhere in Dr. Page's quote, I don't see him citing aggressive Calvinism. Rather, he points to his concern about the "theological divide of Calvinism and non-Calvinism". While aggressive Calvinism of the sort presented in this blog can be divisive and disconcerting (which I have personally experienced), I believe Dr. Page's concern rests in differences of theological doctrine as challenging and problematic for Southern Baptists.

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