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Sep 15, 2011

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chris gilliam

Peter,
You know I embrace a solid 4 of the 5, but I don't like the label and never considered myself a YRR. I am very disheartened by many of them these days, seems a head full of theology and a heart full of malice! Certainly not Christ like at all.

Brandon Smith

Haha! Typical Lumpkins going shock jock on his blog.

peter

Brandon,

Yes, Brandon. I am personally the issue, of course, not your undeniably disrespectful slur against Vines, Patterson, and Allen. To my knowledge, Jerry Vines has never, ever written, on a blog or twitter, an unkind word about any person, including Calvinists. Yet you choose to slander Drs. Patterson & Allen at Jerry Vines' expense.

I suggest you get a grip on life, brother.

With that, I am...
Peter

CASEY

If the law(Word) is on your side...argue the law.
If the facts are on your side...argue the facts.
If you have neither...attack the person.
[Old adage from a Christian lawyer]
Seems to me the (new)Calvinists continually attack individuals in a very quick reactionary way.
Enough said.....

Ed Goodman

Jared Moore's post was sarcastic and intended to be read as ridiculous. I am not a five-point Calvinist but i know Jared wasn't attacking my side. In fact, it was a call against ridiculous assertions like he made. Peter, my brother, you know i love you, but perhaps fanning this flame is unwise and counterproductive, much like you insinuate Jared was being. I can understand u taking exception with Brandon but not with Jared. You insinuate that Jared affirmed his lists but he did not. Satire is a recognized form of persuasive communication, which I'm sure as an accomplished journalist you understand.

peter

So, then do you "take exception" to Brandon, Ed? I'm afraid I didn't catch it if you did. Rather you logged on to make me the issue by my supposed "fanning the flames". According to you, I'm the problem. Goodness gracious...

Have a good Friday.

With that, I am...
Peter

peter

Ed

BTW, I can appreciate good satire. Yet Jared never once indicated his post was meant to be either humorous, satirical, or sarcastic. Instead he compares two other lists (which were supposedly *not* fiction) with one he made and queries,

"After reading my observations, do you see how foolish it is to stereotype an entire theological group based on observations that have NOTHING to do with their theology?

His assumption is, people will easily see the comparison he drew, not the sarcasm you claim he wrote.

With that, I am...
Peter

Sid

Brandon,

You seriously need to grow up. And you want a church to call you as their pastor?

Ed Goodman

Peter, I don't think it was wise for Brandon to tweet that. But I don't think it is helpful to move to the other extreme and accuse Jared of actually affirming his ridiculous lists. He has too great a track record of solid theological conviction for us to entertain a notion that he is a troublemaker. And maybe I'm wrong, but I would also bet that Brandon desires to get along with non-Calvinists, just as I assume that you, Peter, are willing to lovingly cooperate with Calvinists.

Maybe I'm just two grapes short of a fruit salad in my perceptions of people. I don't think you yourself are the problem, Peter, but I don't think it helped to offer this post. But my respect for you hasn't changed despite this disagreement. As always, my love goes out to you, brother.

peter

Ed,

Look. If you can show one word which implies I "move[d] to the other extreme and accuse[d] Jared of actually affirming his ridiculous lists" then by all means do so. I merely quoted his words as being a "comparison" not a "satire" as you claimed, Ed. And a comparison is clearly implied in his words, for Pete's sake--"After reading my observations, do you see how foolish it is to stereotype an entire theological group based on observations that have NOTHING to do with their theology?"

Nor am I particularly concerned whether you feel this post "unhelpful". Since no one else logged a response to SBC Voices' contributors' posts--i.e. Jared and Brandon--I certainly think it IS helpful to put something up. What's revealing is, you're over here telling me how unhelpful my piece is all the while defending Jared's piece as if his piece is helpful. Even more, Smith has a post defending his tweet as a "joke". Is, then, Brandon's post helpful, Ed? Or, is his contribution in the comment stream above helpful?

I suggest once again you go back and assist Dave. After Brandon's miserable attempt to make his disdainful tweet into a "joke" on the SBC Voices blog--just the opposite of what Dave called for in his post--he presumably needs the assistance.

with that, I am...
Peter

Dave Miller

For the record, my call was not just to Calvinists to tone down their rhetoric. It was to both Calvinists and those who oppose Calvinism to realize that while the debate is important, the way we have carried on the debate is not.

The problem is not just on one side or the other, neither is the solution.

peter

Dave,

Thanks. You most certainly did mention both sides. Yet nothing here I can see implies a denial of such, Dave. But it's your two contributors which spawned this post, a necessary post I might add.

Ironically, the next day after you explicitly noted the future Calvinistic posts at Voices will be "posts... [that are]...exegetical, expositional and theological – or even devotional" Smith puts up a post not even close to your criteria. Like I said, we cannot expect much change at SBC Voices.

Thanks for stopping by.
With that, I am...
Peter

Dave Miller

Brandon was publicly called out for the tweet and he wrote a response to it - one that I thought displayed humility and was in the spirit which I hope and pray will replace the spirit that has been.

Mary

It's amazing how many times graceless hateful attacks against Christians is dismissed as "sarcasm" or "a joke" and then when pointed out that their "joke" is not at all amusing the not really an apology "sorry you were too dumb to get the sarcasm and the funny" apology.

It's even more astonishing that men who have alledgely been called to preach the Gospel when told by victims of rapid Cavlivinist about their very real world experiences with Calvinist are immediately deemed as liars and haters and "anti" These YRR will defend Calvinism no matter what and no matter who they insult and hurt in the process. It's very cult like and idolotrous. Oh I know unless you provide the names, phone numbers, ip addresses, facebook profiles, cell numbers, birth dates, mother's maiden name of the Calvinist who has victimized you and your church and 50 other Calvinist who've done the same that's just proof that you are a liar. That's how Christians are supposed to treat other hurting Christians - "PROVE THAT THAT HAPPENED OR YOU'RE a LIAR."

SBC Volices is a joke and these recent rants against nonCalvinist prove it. Why isn't SBC Voices posting anything regarding the SGM scandel? Why not anything regarding the whoo whoo of Mark Driscoll? Because Calvinist must be defended at all costs and when one of their own does something offenseive and completly off the reservation than it's ignored or simply dismissed as "you don't understand not being a brilliant Calvinist like me." Please spare me the Driscol and SGM aren't SBC when we all know the influence those men have on the SBC. You'd better believe those nonCalvinist haters over there would be blogging endelessly about a nonCalvinist who's in trouble if given the chance. So much for holding Christian leaders responsible if they happen to be Calvinist.

peter

Of course, he displays humility, Dave. How stupid of me. That's precisely why he started his post with "a typical shock jock post that [Peter Lumpkins] wrote about myself and Voices...", copying his humble response above.

What's more, he humbly rationalized his horrible mistake into the form of a "joke" though, I'm quite sure neither Vines, Patterson, nor Allen thought it very funny. Now that's humility!

And, besides that, he based his entire inspiration for "Calvinists hating Jesus" on that demonic book by non-Calvinists, Whosoever Will, a book he humbly has never read, a conference he never attended, and speakers he humbly never heard. Yet, they preach "Calvinists hate Jesus!"

Yes siree, Dave, just keep on going, brother. Maybe--just maybe--we all can rise to the humility you discern in this stellar example.

With that, I am...
Peter

Mary

So this is HUMILITY????? Really???

"typical shock jock post that [Peter Lumpkins] wrote about myself and Voices"

Haha! Typical Lumpkins going shock jock on his blog.

Posted by: Brandon Smith | Sep 15, 2011 at 09:30 PM

Brandon Smith is like a little boy who got caught doing something wrong and he's not really sorry, but has to apologize so he plays Eddie Haskell "Yes Mrs. Cleaver, that's a lovely pearl neckless Mrs. Cleaver!" He appreciates Peter for pointing out his mistake so much that he insults him at SBC Voices and on Peter's own blog, but this is deemed as "humility" and a "good spirit" The very fact that the young man thought he could make such an offensive "joke" shows not only a lack of humility but an incrediable immaturity for one who has been called to be a pastorate.

Sorry if as a mother of immature teen age boys I'm not buying the "I'm sorry, really I am, buuuuuuuut Peter.........."

A.M. Mallett

While this is somewhat amusing to observe from the sidelines, it is quite apparent that Mr Brandon Smith needs a trip to the woodshed with something more sturdy than Mr. Dave Miller is willing to brandish.

peter

Mary,

I have to laugh, my sister. Sometimes you can frame things in a very funny way :^)

Grace to you.

With that, I am...
Peter

Mary

AM, you've hit on what is a huge problem amongst these YRR. They have no respect for anyone who is not a Calvinist. What exactly has a Brandon Smith done in his short life that gives him the arrogance to mock and belittle a man who was a giant in the fight to save the SBC from the liberals? The answer of course is that he's done nothing except that he happens to be a Calvinist which makes him the superior spiritually and intellectually of a man like Jerry Vines. See where the Bible teaches young men should respect their elders in the Lord, it doesn't mean that a superior specimen such as Brandon Smith owes any respect to such a dolt as Jerry Vines who rejects Calvinism.

The Calvinist elite have created this monster of YRR who troll around on these blogs with their arrogance and disdain for any who haven't found the "truth" of the DOG. They cannot correct these YRR because of the political situation in the SBC. Thus you see silence when a Driscoll has gone off the reservation with his porno gifts of discernment. The YRR would have a fit if someone like Mohler came out and said "you know that Driscoll guy has some serious issues regarding sex and so I think we should really distance ourselves from him until he gets the psychological help he so obviously needs."

And so you see at the SBC Voices blog - when Calvinist are caught out behaving badly in such a blatent way you'll hear the half hearted "ok maybe sorta would you please mind pretty please with sugar on top not being so offensive YRR and oh yeah of course the other side is just as guilty and wrong and we all know they're idiots and the problems are really not because of Calvinist but it's the nonCalvinist that make the YRR behave badly, but pretty please could you not be so blatent in the attacks against nonCalvinist cuz I'm trying to look like I have some crediabilty here. I hope I didn't offend you or anything YRR because I really want you to like me and think I'm a cool dude just like you. It really is both sides with the problem wink wink. And oh have I told you how cool you young guys are. And what humility and grace!"

Mary

Peter, laughing is good otherwise we'd have to cry over the so-called "leaders" who are coming up behind us.

Mary

Well, good news Peter. Brandon Smith has declared you to be a person not to be taken seriously and so it's perfectly ok when he insults you being as you are not anybody of importance in the world as Brandon Smith sees it. He can laugh at and ridicule whomever he declares is beneath him! How anyone ever thought SBC Voices was full of arrogant punk Calvinist is just beyond thought.

I wish I knew what church young Mr. Smith has been called to. I'll just bet they've got some good times in store with such a rational, reasoned, mature young man, snark.

Brandon Smith

I am thankful and proud to report that Malcolm Yarnell, directly involved in my post, commended my maturity and humility. Opinions are opinions... let's all relax. Eeesh!

peter

So, Dr. Yarnell is commending Smith's "humility and maturity"? O.K...

With that, I am...
Peter

Dr. James Willingham

It is a lot of baloney that calvinism needs defending to the point tht it will not face its shortcomings. That is true for some, but not for all. Sovereign Grace demands reality, the reality of looking at one's self and commitment including ESPECIALLY ONE'S OWN SHORTCOMINGS & THE SHORTCOMINGS AND MISREPRESENTATIONS OF THE POSITION WE HOLD.

As Oliver Cromwell said: "PAINT ME: WARTS AND ALL!"

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