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May 24, 2011

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Hmm...being something other than a native Southerner, I'd have thought you were trying to say "not a sliver of evidence", so I'll have to add the Southern version to my handy pocket translation guide...

TRB

Peter,

I once had a denominational player (unnamed) tell me, "Being a denominational serpent, I mean servent, is not all what it is told to be." Tanke that with your slither! It's Friday!!!

TRB,

Well, no, it's no typo. It's only my Tennessee hills upbringing coming out in all its illiterate glory. "Notta slither" is an idiomatic phrase perhaps derived from "not the slightest" or something similar. Pretty funny you picked up on it.

And the possible allusion to snake-like action is even funnier to me. I shall not say anything more about that :^)

With that, I am...
Peter

Peter:

You wrote "The GCRTF offered not a slither of evidence..." Not sure if "slither" was a typo or an intentional reference to snakes or snake-like action. LOL

TRB

A start would be coming to the SBC-CONSERVATIVES MTG in PHOENIX. Monday night(6-13) 5:00pm. It is an INVITATION ONLY meeting but those who are really interested can contact me for an invite. Space is limited(room size) is the only reason for 'invite only'. Good info, good speakers and hopefully the DVD, "SBC - Connecting the Dots" , will be introduced and done by then. E-mail 'request to attend' to:
"KCFROMKC@cablemo.net"
We look forward to seeing you there. As they say in sales brochures,
"Only serious Conservatives need apply".

Don,

Thanks. Good questions. It's debatable whether IMB personnel will necessarily be better equipped to reach internationals in the long run. Just because they've worked in indigenous countries, does not necessarily mean they will better reach internationals here, unless the internationals are "newbies." Americanized internationals pose a unique challenge about which NAMB missionaries could be adequately trained to address it seems to me. Even so, we've not had a proper debate on this question. Why not allow our missiologists to thoroughly study the question? The GCRTF offered not a slither of evidence they'd remotely studied the issue at all. Instead they made a blanket assertion and left it at that.

As for combining the two entities, I would be hesitant to a priori dismiss it. Yet at the same time, I would offer severe reservations in moving forward without extreme caution. The SBC's genius has been a non-centralized approach. We've had several agencies which each required its own set of trustees. The less trustees, the less involvement the SBC has in controlling its entities. To combine the two would eliminate an entire sector of involvement by SBC members (trustees). This is just more top-down slop fed to the pigs.

Thanks again. Very good questions.
With that, I am...
Peter

Don,

You wrote, "Communication across the vast distances of the world is easy, simple and straightforward."

Agreed. Go to the next SBC Annual Meeting and propose that the Annual Meeting be held via the Internet in regional locations all around the USA at the same time so that more of the SBC can participate. Propose that and see what happens.

Blessings,

Les

"The annual convention is a very much controlled meeting so that decisions already made in Nashville, Louisville, Alpharetta, Richmond, Ft. Worth, etc., are rubber-stamped by messengers who have no clue as to what they're voting on most of the time. I see no difference in this case either."

Les, I find this to be an interesting perspective and more than likely accurate.

What can we do about this? I think I understand your writings to be encouraging a more active voice for the smaller church, indeed, even a call for smaller churches to assert their authority and use their numbers to influence the convention. What needs to be done to bring about a "bottom-up" movement? How so we accomplish this?

"When our leaders speak of the SBC as a bottom-up organization under the control of the local churches, they insult our intelligence."

Really, How? Did the GCR votes pass by significant majorities? Are you implying that SBC messengers are too ignorant to vote informatively about what is presented to them? The churches of the Southern Baptist Convention have all the control they want.

Peter,

Do you have an issue with the IMB working with internationals living here in the United States.? It seems to me they are the best qualified to reach these people groups who have so very much in common with their people in their native lands. Have we not been duplicating our efforts with regards to people groups?

Is it possible that the actions being undertaken by NAMB and IMB have more to do with the ever shrinking world we live in. We are not in the 1800's anymore, people are more mobile than ever before, they have more knowledge than ever before. Communication across the vast distances of the world is easy, simple and straightforward.

Shouldn't we adjust our focus to address these new realities?


Peter,

Having worked directly with EC committees, my experience is that their decision will be made prior to any formal meetings or listening sessions, just as the GCRTF proved to be.

The SBC we have today is, as you hinted, a top-down organization. When our leaders speak of the SBC as a bottom-up organization under the control of the local churches, they insult our intelligence. The annual convention is a very much controlled meeting so that decisions already made in Nashville, Louisville, Alpharetta, Richmond, Ft. Worth, etc., are rubber-stamped by messengers who have no clue as to what they're voting on most of the time. I see no difference in this case either.

Les

Chris,

Hopefully, the EC members will take this proposal apart line by line and phrase by phrase and insist on overkill clarity.

Grace, brother.
With that, I am...
Peter

I see your point. Thanks! I also see the validity related to Lottie and Annie. I think this point ought to be teased out more.

Chris,

Thanks. As to the combining of the entities per se, I don't think the debate has taken place. In other words, were it to happen ipso facto of their changing the ministry focus of IMB, we would have just another "top-down" decision imposed on Southern Baptists. Of course, one must keep in mind, I'm presupposing the wedding with that statement.

As is, practical dynamics of an ill-defined ministry territory could cause serious rivalries for monies and funds. For example, who pays for IMB projects in the states, IMB or NAMB? In addition, our Lottie Moon offerings would no longer be exclusively for "foreign" missions. Defining people groups who are "underserved" and "unreached" would be the responsibility of whom? I suppose it would be the IMB but the focus does not say. Nor is it feasible just to state "work together."

Personally, I think if one thinks about this for a while, any number of practical considerations could seriously be raised which demands clear definition what is meant by changing a ministry focus from crisp clarity to potential chaos with “agreed upon assistance” to NAMB for "unreached and underserved" people groups.

Hope that helps some.
With that, I am...
Peter

Peter,

Goal or no goal, providential conicidence or human interference, help me understand why this would be a bad thing. I understand the pitfalls of too much consolidation and centralizing. But I have also seen the lack of cooperation, or better stated, overlapping redundancies between NAMB and state conventions to the point that much of NAMB's work looked more like a redheaded stepchild coming to dinner late. Personally, I have no dog in the hunt and perhaps a poor understanding of the distinctions, so I would truly value your input.

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