« Doktor James White on Fudging His Teaching Assignments by Peter Lumpkins | Main | James White's Challenge--Peter Lumpkins' Response by Peter Lumpkins »

Mar 25, 2011

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R.L. Adler

Et tu, TF?

Tim Rogers

Brother Peter,

What more official notice does James White need? I mean, when the president says he does not have a contract to teach and there are no plans for future contracts, how much more "official" report does one need?

http://mediasuite.316networks.com/player.php?p=fga5sa1z

Blessings,
Tim

Tim Rogers

Brother Peter,

Sorry, but I am having a hard time directing you to the link. If one would click the following link and then go to "Part 6" video on "Wednesday Morning" the question is the first part of that video.

http://mediasuite.316networks.com/player.php?p=fga5sa1z

Andrew

You affect indifferent humor and a casual style, but it strikes one as papery skin over a skeleton of bitterness, if I may be so bold.

Patrick

TF is a bad example for GGBTS with that Westminster jacket being on.

peter lumpkins

Thankz!

With that, I am...
Peter

Daniel

I wasn't aware TurretinFan was an official at Golden Gate. Also, "TurretinFan" is a pseudonym, so I don't see how Mr. Lumpkins has fulfilled his claim to reveal his alleged source.

peter lumpkins

Excuse me, Daniel: do you know TurretinFan? Then I would not be so bold as deny him as an official at GGBTS. Hence, I don't see how you can so prematurely deny my fulfilling my part of the deal with JW.

With that, I am...
Peter

Daniel

How does that mean that GG has cut ties with Dr. White? All it says that he is not currently teaching any courses there and that there are no classes currently planned for him to teach. It doesn't say anything about whether or not he will teach in the future.

Daniel

Are you saying he is an official at GG?

michael

Peter,

I think you are having way to much fun to be human!

With that,
I still am
michael

peter lumpkins

Daniel,

You are cracking me up, guy. Please, Please. Read Michael above. And then, stop...close your eyes...breath...relax...and live a few minutes man.

Sweet Georgia peaches! I've got to get away from some of you guys...

With that, I am...
Peter

Dave Armstrong

So TAO knows all the inside dope about GGBTS and Bishop White? I'm dying laughing over here . . .

D.L

Well, I thought it was a good question. I don't know why you were told to relax, as if you were losing it? At any rate, its a good question and one, which I hope Mr. Lumpkins can answer.

D.L

Daniel

I'm fully relaxed. However, you have made a serious claim. Either you were joking or you weren't. If you were joking, then I think you need to admit that. If you weren't joking, then for honesty's sake you need to provide proof of your claim. I don't think that this is too much to ask.

Dave Armstrong

These guys are always a good laugh, and the levity is welcome. The bar may be raised even higher with this farce . . . LOLOL Once one thinks fundamentalists of the White variety won't top themselves with yet more folly, one will be bitterly disappointed every time!

If White would ever simply say he's sorry (as Peter noted), and messed up (like all of us have many times, being mere sinful mortals), this thing could be so over, and he would gain a lot of people's respect for such an acknowledgment. But he won't do that, and so perpetuates more of his own problems. It's a sad spectacle indeed, at bottom, but funny in other ways (like so much human folly is).

Tim Rogers

Daniel,

If the President of the seminary says he is not currently teaching any classes and there are no plans for him to teach in the future, then there is only one question. What part of "no plans for him to teach in the future" reveals a continuing tie with ole JW?

Tim

peter lumpkins

What on earth are you talking about, Daniel? What "serious claim"? About TurretinFan?

the gods are making me crazy...

With that, I am...
Peter

Daniel

You agreed to provide the identity of an official at GGBTS who was providing you with certain information. We are still waiting.

Daniel

I would imagine that the burden of proof rests on the shoulders of the person making the claim that GGBTS has cut ties with Dr. White.

As far as I know, no one is disputing the fact that Dr. White is not currently teaching any classes at GGBTS nor has he been contracted to teach any in the foreseeable future.

peter lumpkins

O.K. Daniel. We can all stop laughing now. Go back and read the original post and look for the name I provided. If you don't like the name, or don't know who he is, I suggest that is not my problem in the least.

With that, I am...
Peter

P.S. If you think I'm actually going to keep doing this with you, I think you really need to take a break and have a smooth cup java. In short, I ain't...

Daniel

I appreciate you taking this seriously. However, you did not provide a name. You provided a pseudonym.

Since you don't want to continue this conversation, I will respect that decision and make this post my concluding remark.

Scott Oakland

I'm with Daniel. Do we need to listen to that audio file you posted to find out? If so, that's fine. But why not just post the written proof (if you have it) that the President of GGBTS has said that "Dr. White will no longer teach here"? I suspect because you don't have it.

peter lumpkins

Scott,

Did you even read anything in the OP, Scott? James White knows the answer to your question. He contacted GGBTS last June. If I was wrong in my info, do you think White would not plaster his official answer up on his site with Golden Gate Baptist Theological Seminary letterhead in bold letters specifically proving I didn't know what I was talking about? He'd have my Georgia hide for this.

Why does he not post the answer he received from his superiors at Golden Gate? I'll tell you why. It's because he knows he's through there. He knows because they undoubtedly told him. That's why you didn't see a follow-up response last June. If White had a positive response from GG, I wouldn't have this post up? Why? Because he would have nailed me last June when I first mentioned him being cut from Golden Gate.

Now, for the last time: ask James White what his superiors told him last June, and stop this absolute nonsense about me posting anything about what official word I have. I'm not going to do it. White has his official response. So, demand he post his.

With that, I am...
Peter

peter lumpkins

Oh, and by the way, Scott:

Assuming you are the same "Scott Oakland" I privately emailed concerning your podcast, where is the integrity in sending the private email I sent to you for James White to read publicly on his Dividing Line program? Now please understand: I know the email you received had a privacy statement which stated the email was not for public viewing and precluded your forwarding the email or making it available for public consumption. I'd post the exact wording but I'm on another computer presently.

So, would you please explain why you would forward to James White my private email I sincerely sent to you which was specifically marked private?

Thanks.
With that, I am...
Peter

Evan May

"If White would ever simply say he's sorry (as Peter noted), and messed up (like all of us have many times, being mere sinful mortals), this thing could be so over, and he would gain a lot of people's respect for such an acknowledgment."

Hey Dave,

While you're calling protestant apologists to admit their errors, do have a similar call to repentance for Ergun Caner?

Thanks,
Evan

peter lumpkins

All,

I think you may be beginning to see how James White gets away with padding his resume. White obviously has help doing it from supporters like Scott Oakland (the commenter above). I would never have known ReformedCast podcast was in any way affiliated with White. I simply thought it was, well... a Reformed website; that's all. Instead, as it turns out, it is a website which assists James White in perpetuating his erroneous academic accomplishments.

Why do I say this? Well, if you listen to the first eight minutes of the DL link I gave, you'll hear White read the email I sent to ReformedCast via Scott Oakland (above). So Scott sends my clearly marked privatized email to White, and White reads it on the air.

Talk about soap opera! Oh, brother...

With that, I am...
Peter

D.L

You probably, won't post this but, here goes...You stated "Now, for the last time: ask James White what his superiors told him last June, and stop this absolute nonsense about me posting anything about what official word I have. I'm not going to do it. White has his official response. So, demand he post his."

Then why bother posting any evidence at all? Why, attempt at using TurrentinFan, as evidence for an Official at GG? Why, mention that you can provide evidence from an official at GG, if we can't determine who this is?

I mean it just seems terribly inconsistent to me. It's not as if everyone knows what TurrentinFan's secret identity is, at least it seems a few readers don't?

Also, I'm not quite sure, what it means for Dr. White to not being teach at GG, any more? It appears as if you're saying he is banned from teaching at GG?

"Why does he not post the answer he received from his superiors at Golden Gate? I'll tell you why. It's because he knows he's through there. He knows because they undoubtedly told him. That's why you didn't see a follow-up response last June. If White had a positive response from GG, I wouldn't have this post up? Why? Because he would have nailed me last June when I first mentioned him being cut from Golden Gate."

In a nutshell, James White didn't shoot you down, so the allegations must be true?

Your posts beg more questions then they answer.

D.L

Scott Oakland

Peter:

As to your first post, you keep sending those who question your assertions over to other sources. That is like saying, without providing any proof, "Hey, person 'X' is not who they say they are. You want details? Just ask them." If this went on in an ecclesiastical setting, you'd be under church discipline in many venues.

I respectfully disagree that the onus is on anyone to "prove a negative" - that is, to proactively seek out information contrary to the stated and fairly obvious evidence that Dr. White teaches at GGBTS on an adjunct basis.

Once again, please ask someone with authority - or even quote someone - who has this info. If it is TurretinFan like you state, then send the proof. If it turns out to be true, I'll apologize and correct the record.

As to your email, your expectation of email privacy is interesting. I did address this with Dr. White so that I could verify whether what you said is true. I'm sorry, but I didn't see the privacy warning. So forwarding an email is evil but maligning character without evidence isn't? I By the way, it is exactly what you just implored everyone to do: to ask Dr White. Which I have. So what's the real beef?

Scott

Scott Oakland

Peter, There is no conspiracy going on here. I nor the podcast is affiliated with James White. Since it is you who is accusing Dr. White of misrepresenting himself, then the burden falls squarely on your shoulders to provide the proof. It is not up to us.

peter lumpkins

Scott,

Nice try. First, let me be very specific: if you're asking me to tell you the specific person, I suggest you stop wasting your time. I most certainly will *not* do so. Now if you want an alternative, I can suggest you talk to your buddy.

Second, if you or anyone else think I was serious about TF, I cannot even fathom it. What some guys do for laughs must be really creepy.

Now let me spell it out: the stark irony of James White demanding I divulge the person who told me something makes as much sense as for me to ask James White who TurrentinFan is. White's minions hee-haw like donkeys in a barnyard when someone wants to know who TF is since he (or she) has made a blog-living out of "revealing" things about others, and he (or she) does it completely anonymously.

Now before you (or anyone else) respond, listen carefully: I don't care whether or not you "got" the irony. And I'm not going to argue with you what irony is, whether humor is valid, etc etc etc. I don't care, Scott. I "got" it, and that's why I posted it. It's really that simple.

Third, like I told you in my follow-up email, the decision is yours. I'm under the impression that reasonable people have enough info to judge whether White actually teaches for GG or not. So, you can do as you wish. Nor am I asking for an apology. That's your business.

Fourth, well, you did more than "discuss" this with Doktor White, Scott. You forwarded an email to him, an email marked private. And, whether or not you saw the privacy statement, it is there. Now, of course, it doesn't surprise me that you see no problem in this. For neither does White. Obviously I didn't know you were buds, or I would have anticipated your sharing it.

With that, I am...
Peter

peter lumpkins

Scott,

I didn't mention "conspiracy," why would you?

Now, I have provided plenty of proof. It's there. Do I expect White and his supporters (including you, Scott) to accept it? Can fat dogs jump? Does a cat have a climbing gear?

Hence, Scott, your wasting your time here. I could never--NEVER--give you proof you would accept. It's just that simple. Hence, I'm not wasting any more time trying.

With that, I am...
Peter

P.S. I would really think through the unethical policy of forwarding private emails for public consumption were I you--especially those specifically marked "not intended for public use"

michael

Not one to side with you, Peter, but really folks, I do see your point as I really did find humor in your little humorous TurretinFan joke:::>

Peter,

I think you are having way to much fun to be human!

With that,
I still am
michael

We should all be honest and admit, you "clicked" it to see who it was!

I think this whole thing has gotten rotten in here and not in Demark!

And for the record, this second time, no I did not take it as serious but rather funny instead and so I commend your words, Peter, again, to everyone not on your side and encourage them to really relax a bit and have a good laugh. Afterall, we do serve the Living God, the one Who knows our hearts are deceitfully wicked, "who can know them"?

Your words, Peter:

Second, if you or anyone else think I was serious about TF, I cannot even fathom it. What some guys do for laughs must be really creepy.

God's man's Words:

Psa 143:1 A Psalm of David. Hear my prayer, O LORD; give ear to my pleas for mercy! In your faithfulness answer me, in your righteousness!
Psa 143:2 Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you.

I've got a bucket of stones if any one of you need some?

Scott Oakland

I took a look at your "privacy statement". It was very light gray on a white background that unless someone was looking for it, one could never see it. Sort of like the warning label on cough syrup and not exceeding the suggested dose. Tiny print that no one reads. Now when someone didn't see it (I honestly didn't) you failed to give me the benefit of the doubt and posted THAT in public for all to see. You assumed it was deliberate. So that's ok? What is wrong with this picture?

As to the proof of Dr White no longer teaching at GGBTS, I went to the SBC web site with the videos and couldn't tell where to find anything about Dr White. Is it inserted like a backward-masked Led Zeppelin song? Or perhaps that video has nothing to do with it? I did search the OP and all I see is a six-part video series from the SBC and a picture of the TurretinFan cartoon. I wonder if you asked his permission to use the cartoon here?

Scott Oakland

Peter, Ok I have found the section of the video in Part 6 of Wed. AM on the SBC 2010. It stated that he currently is not contracted at GG and not currently scheduled to be under contract at GG. I quote, the man said "they are contracted course by course". That was in June 2010, 6 mos. ago. Nothing in the video states that he is - or even was - "cut off", to use your words. And this supposed to prove that he is not currently (um, it's March 2011 now, Peter) contracted as an adjunct professor? Peter, you must do better.

peter lumpkins

Scott,

This is my last response to you, and the last comment I'll post for you unless you have something really worth posting which doesn't sound like a broken record

First, while the privacy statement is lighter in color, it is hardly what you suggest--"unless someone was looking for it, one could never see it" Nonsense.

Second, so you didn't intend to send the email? Interesting. I suppose White didn't intend to read it publicly either.

Third, posted what? That you sent a private email to James White and he publicly read it on the DL? Please. Don't you realize I am so naive about White's buddies, I didn't know you were the guy till I clicked on your link. I had even forgetton your name! What a Georgia hoot!

Scott, look: even if I didn't have a privacy statement on the email, what goofus organization would send a private email to be publicly read on a public broadcast? And not just read, but with obvious intentions of embarrassing the sender? I'll tell you what goofus organization would: an organization which is thoroughly in bed with James White. That's what JW does, my fellow creature--he reads and posts people's private emails on the public airwaves--most times of which are to mock and ridicule. O.K

Now, you are on record in the audio saying JW "teaches Greek, systematic theology, and Hebrew at GGBTS" (you don't even qualify it with "adjunct professor" and the AZ campus!). We know this is definitively not true. Period. He does not. You can do as you wish with this knowledge, Scott. You can continue perpetuating falsehood or correct the record. And, you know what? I won't lose a wink of sleep which you decide to do. Clear?

And, attempting to fog things up by suggesting I'm now the culprit, is not even clever anymore, Scott. It won't work. You and James White need to stop perpetuating falsehoods about his academic accomplishments. It's really that simple.

Good bye.

With that, I am...
Peter

D.L

"Second, if you or anyone else think I was serious about TF, I cannot even fathom it. What some guys do for laughs must be really creepy."

Some of us actually took you seriously. I suppose that can be attributed to differences in humor. At any rate, I'm not really sure what you consider proof nor evidence but these are two different things. I think the amount of info your provided is very inconclusive, to say the least.

Looking at the entirety of your arguments it appears that you're not clear, with regards to whether or not Dr. White, is simply not currently teaching at GG or if he's been completely cut off?

Also, the only thing that I clearly see is that, you believe the allegations regarding Dr. White are true because he didn't nail you for it?

In closing, it appears from this standpoint, that you're putting James on the spot because he put EC on the spot; however, the only thing I can say is apples and oranges, man.

D.L

peter lumpkins

D.L

You may conclude as you wish. That's why the thread is here.

With that, I am...
Peter

peter lumpkins

Look, Scott. I'm done. The public has the facts. I've presented what I know as best I know how, and I'm perfectly content to let them figure it out (unless some more reliable evidence is forthcoming). You, James and the gang just continue on in your thinking things are just swell.

I'll sleep good tonight.
With that, I am...
Peter

Scott Oakland

Peter, Well, this is your blog, so you can refuse to post it if you want. However, let me point out that you have been weighed and found wanting on the evidence. If this were a court of law, your case would never have gotten past the prelim stages. As Dr. White has asked you many times, why don't you call into his program and confront him yourself, instead of hiding behind a keyboard? You'd get a lot more accomplished, and your supporters would respect you more for it. So there's your challenge. I'll be listening to the DL for your call this coming Tuesday. I hope and pray you'll take him up on his offer.

peter lumpkins

Scott,

This really is my final comment to you (and yours on this thread at any rate). I've listened to how JA treats those who "call in"--at least those who have shall we say, history, with him. No thanks.

And, I would not so much as attempt to contact him via email. I think you know why. The first email I ever sent to JA was plastered on his site within hours. You and White simply have no moral conscience prohibiting stuff like that obviously. Be my guest. But I will not play the games the way JW wants.

Do you honestly think I don't know why JW wants me to call him? He controls the mic, dude. And with his public spewing about me, do you think anyone in their right mind would expect one as myself to get even a semblance of a fair deal?

Please. Go find your sucker somewhere else. I irritate JW because JW has no control over me. He can't manipulate me. That's why he wants me to call. Well, all JW needs to do to do me in on this one is, post the response he received from his superiors last June.

As I said above, I didn't ride in on a turnip truck.

With that, I am...
Peter

Scott Oakland

Wow, that's a disturbing post, Peter. I don't have a moral conscience now? I'm not the one with half his blog devoted to maligning James White. I'd look in the mirror first before talking about moral consciences. Does "accuse not an Elder" mean anything to you? Dr. White is an Elder at PRBC in Phoenix. I suppose you'll say that because he isn't an elder at YOUR church, he's fair game?

Scott Oakland

I see my pending post has disappeared. So typical - you banned me so you can get the last word. I was warned that would happen.

Ron Phillips, Sr.

Peter,

For such "deep thinkers", I find it amusing that they miss the big elephant in the room that your OP makes: That White obviously received a response to his inquiry of last June. If it had been favorable to White, he would have trumpeted it for months on his blog and dl. The fact that he has not, nor has he stated that he never received a response, is prima facie evidence that you are correct. It would be completely out of White's character to not blow his own horn, or for his followers to blow it for him. Yet nary a word about the response he received. Well, except for the standard "you sir, are a liar".

That Scott and others can not understand the logical argument that you have made in a humorous fashion is funny in and of itself.

Blessings my brother,

Ron P.

Greg

OK...
So, as of June 2010, JW was a teacher, and "no plans" translates to "will not" ?
So, he's guilty of umm... not updating his resume?

Ocean.Greg

Chris Gilliam

Peter,

What this was funny. At the same time it is sad to see so much high school behavior from some who are supposed to be role models.

Leaders ignore false propaganda. Thus if your "propaganda" is false, a good leader just ignores you. BUT the fact that so many are trying to justify why you make nonsense...tells the real story.

Where there is smoke the fire must be a lurking. BTW--it really is funny.

Scott, rather than excuse or justify your actions, I suggest, just a suggestion, that you ask Peter's forgiveness and leave it at that.

A.M. Mallett

Generally speaking, you should have consulted the sender before publicizing any private communications. To do otherwise demonstrates a rather poor character.

Scott Oakland

AM, you're ignoring the context here. 1 - Peter made assertions that needed to be verified. That is what I did. 2 - I see nothing wrong with forwarding an email, as he did not specifically ask me to keep it confidential. I did not publicize anything. Also, a light-gray disclaimer at the bottom of an email (which I have already explained I did not see) is not sufficient. It is essentially a way to trap someone. It may be because Peter's followers don't like that I have called him out on this one. What about Peter's character? Half of this blog is an attack on James White. Perhaps you should be asking him the same questions.

Dave Armstrong

As Dr. White has asked you many times, why don't you call into his program and confront him yourself, instead of hiding behind a keyboard?

Ah yes. Why don't you, then, call Peter on the phone rather than "hiding behind your keyboard" in all these combox posts? What are you, a coward?

Ron Phillips, Sr.

Peter,

How are you "hiding behind a keyboard" on the internet? It's not like you use a pseudonym or anonymously attack White like a certain follower of White does.

Seems the plow is not very deep right now with responding to your argument.

Blessings,

Ron P.

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