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Feb 16, 2011

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Ray

From the moment my hearing first laid ears on white last year (it was his hyper-calvinist eisegeses of john 3:16) until this fear-mongering clip you've linked, I've come to the conclusion that mr. white suffers from Delusions of Grandeur. he would do well to humble himself or grow thicker skin.

Roy

You, sir, are a synergistic bigot!

In all honesty, Dr. J(I mention that name again because Mr. White is as qualified to be called a doctor as the basketball player Dr. J) continues to remind us that he's just as vicious as we claim he is.

Peter, I do want to thank you for standing up to White and his followers. You certainly have endured a lot over it. You must have been one of the nice kids who stood up for kids being bullied=) Let me guess, you honked the bully's nose and he left you guys alone?:)

Is anyone else wondering if Lumpkins is on the verge of becoming the replacement obsession for Ergun Caner?

Still waiting for an apology from Rich Pierce and White for their unchristlike and mean-spirited insults on the looks of mormon women.

Mary

Peter, the irony here is that White (not a real doctor he just plays one on the internet) is screaming and stamping his feet proclaiming himself to be the bestest, smartest, holiest of christian men ever and his behavior against you shows exactly the polar opposite of WWJD. Even assuming everything he claims about you is true does he really think that gossiping about you in some super secret chat room has some biblical foundation? Calling you all kinds of names with such hate and vitriol is the way a so-called Minister of the Gospel is supposed to act???

The problem with what you've done here this time Peter is that the whipped dog image is a direct attack against the man's manhood. For a misogynist like White (not a real doctor he just plays one on the internet) you've punched below the belt and bruised the super de duper "I'm a real man and pretend doctor" ego. Men who have to stoop to attacking women and their looks are a little too sensitive when you portray them as less than a manly man. And having seen White (not a real doctor he just plays one on the internet) it's a serious case of pot meet kettle when he starts attacking anybody on this green earth over their appearance.

And now let the Whitehead Cult swarm.

Mary

Peter, you don't have to post this is you don't think it wise as it will cause the Whitehead Cultists to explode, but I notice in these comment streams that there are posters here who are new to all things James White(not a doctor he just plays one on the internet) For those who want to know a little more about James White and his over the top anger they might be interested in googling James White and Patty Bonds. Mz. Bonds is Jimmy's(not a real doctor he just plays one on the internet)sister and she's told some tales about the dysfunction in the family of origin of ol Jimmy boy which explains a lot about his very noticeably apparent psychological issues.

Roy

@Mary

That was hilarious(not a real doctor, but plays one on the internet).

All jokes aside, I hate that we even have to talk about this, and it's even a joking matter. Doesn't Mr. White realize that his actions and claims make him the subject of jokes and not taken seriously? What does it take for him to just stop claiming he's a doctor and act appropriately? We end up getting associated with him whenever he makes a fool of himself.

peter lumpkins

Roy,

Thanks. And yes, I did have my bouts with bullies in school. I think you've pegged the situation with White among Southern Baptists quite well. I decided about 18 mos. ago we'd feared White wrath long enough.

The last knock out puncher to James White on the internet was Mr. Bob Ross, a convictional Calvinist himself. Ross could take poor White's arguments and make gummy worms out of them. White dis-fellowshiped Ross similar to the way I am now "shunned."

With that, I am...
Peter

jaiotu

@Roy,
For the record, I don't think Rich Pierce's comments regarding "the looks of Mormon women" were aimed at Mormon women in general. If you are referencing the comment that I think you are, Rich was commenting on the looks of some of Brigham Young's wives and comparing them to "Russian women."

Also for the record, I don't think any of Brigham Young's wives looked anything remotely like Anna Chapman.

Peace and bless.

A.M. Mallett

As long as we keep in mind that the Whiteheads are following an inconsequential, aberrant cult leader, everything comes out in the wash. I just remind myself not to step in it when I come across it.

Roy

@jaiotu

I do believe you are defending the indefensible. They were making fun of women's looks. It was degrading, sexist and unchristlike.

For you to try to justify it now hurts your credibility, particularly when you try to argue he was instead making fun of Russian women's looks. Seriously.

Let's not forget, it was a Calvinist woman who had been a fan of James White who first had issue with this and its unchristlike and misogynistic content.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toArZvWc7tQ&feature=player_embedded#at=12

Before you point out that “this video was put up by a Muslim!” Yes, we know, and we also know it was Mormons that took pictures of the hole in the wall that James White calls his seminary. It is still James White and Rich Pierce who are saying the things being said. That doesn't make it any less true. Unfortunately, until Reformists and Calvinists like yourself deal with James White, we'll be left to have unsaved people point out his continuous and obvious unchristlike behavior. And, of course, you will continue to be associated with both his corruption and his unchristlike behavior, as many will assume all Calvinists, if not all Christians, are like he.

peter lumpkins

Mary,

Thanks. So you're saying JW is kinda like House? :^)

Unfortunately, it is true. I feel for him and his family and hope some real healing takes place.

And, yes, White appears oblivious to the way he speaks to and toward others. If you listened to the broadcast, recall what he said concerning Bart Erhman--Erhman spoke condescendingly to him [White} as well as the audience. I could not believe my ears. White accusing someone else of speaking condescendingly about anybody? I almost fell out of my seat when he said that. I recall hearing in a college 101 psy class about a behavior many people unconsciously do like project onto others the very habitual behavior one finds unacceptable about ones self. There's a technical name for it. Whatever the case, what a Georgia hoot!

With that, I am...
Peter

Eric Opsahl

Roy

I am reformed and have no way of "dealing with James White". Neither do other reformed folks EXCEPT those who are in his circle.

As one of the reformed folks, I e-mailed and suggested, in that he publically sinned, he should publically repent of his comments towards those women. I was listening to the show when he said it. I'm clueless as to how he can't see this (in that he is an Elder). All men still have that sin nature to deal with.

Please be careful how you "paint a picture" of reformed folks so you don't also sin.

Roy

Eric,

Considering his entire circle is composed of reform people, I'd say you certainly could do some type of intervention, or at least stop supporting the guy, and therefore his ego. I know you guys are a close knit group, and I know if some of your leaders stopped supporting him, it would do something.

I think the reason he can't see it is the same reason he can't see the wrong in anything else he does, and NO ONE seems able or willing to confront him.

I have no idea how you said me saying that approaches sin, maybe you're in sin? See how that works when we make up sins?

Mary

Peter, unlike the actor in House, JW doesn't seem to know the difference between reality and playacting.

Eric, unfortunately, the sin of misogyny is not the only sin of which JW is guilty - he is notorious for his overinflated ego and pride and it won't matter who points out his need for repentance, his pride will not allow him to admit any wrong doing whatesoever. Unfortunately, JW has cultivated a cult full of followers who like him think the rules simple don't apply to them.

Peter has never painted with such a broad brush that all reformed folk are like JW but unfornately just as Christians are being painted by the nonChristians that JW insults and demeans, so too the reformed have to deal with the witness that JW paints of the reformed. No it's not fair but that's the way the ball bounces. Notice the majority of his insults against Peter have to deal with the fact that Peter is not reformed.

Roy

@jaiotu

I do believe you were one of the ones on here also making comments about mormon women. Do you think you need to apologize?

jaiotu

@Roy,
I don't think I said anything particularly derogatory about Mormon women. If anything I said was taken that way, then I do apologize. I'm not defending White or Pierce's comments. I just don't think they were nearly as insulting as some people are making them out to be.

I have some pictures of my own ancestors from about the same period as the women in question (Brigham Young's wives.) The least attractive of Brigham's wives looks like a pinup model compared to some of my ancestors. It was a reality that hard times back then sculpted people's appearance. Many of those Mormon women endured great hardship traveling to Salt Lake. It shows.

I personally don't see where making a joke about women who have been dead now for a hundred years is all that insulting. That's me. I honestly see the real insult to be toward Russian women. Why? Because there are real live Russian women living today.

I have made two other comments regarding this particular subject. In both, I pointed out that the real offense is not against Mormon women, but against Russian women. I honestly feel that using Russian women as a gauge for unattractiveness is out of place.

I remember an old Pepsi commercial from back in the the 1980s where "Russian women" were parading in a "fashion show." I was a kid. It was funny. Now that I'm and adult... not so much. It's a stereotype that needs to be eradicated.

So why is everyone up in arms about a perceived insult toward some ladies who have been dead now for over a century, but the indirect insult toward women of an entire country goes unnoticed?

It think the answer is that many people have such a bias against Russian women that they don't hear the insult. If anything, White's comment reflects those very same biases that lead people to immediately take offense toward what White said about long-dead Mormon ladies while ignoring what was said about Russian women.

I think White's and Pierce's comments were intended to be humorous and they should be judged as such. Were they crass? Yes. Out of place? Yes. Were they funny? Not really. No. Not really at all. Worthy of all the attention that they raised? Probably not.

jaiotu

Incidentally... in reading this site's policy regarding "anonymous comments," I'd like to fully disclose who I am... My name is John Patrick Smith. Honestly, using a unique identifier like "jaiotu" is much less anonymous then "John Smith."
I was a Journalist 2nd Class in the U.S. Navy. In navy abbreviations, that is "JO2." Get it? J (jai) O (o) 2 (tu.) jaiotu. If you Google "John Smith" or "John Patrick Smith" you will never find me. Google "jaiotu" and thats me.
Just wanted to make it clear that I'm not "hiding" behind an internet nickname. I use it for the exact opposite purpose.

Peace and bless.

Roy

@jaiotu,

I was referring to this earlier comment of yours:

"@Roy;
You're right. Rich Pierce's comparison of the attractiveness of some of Brigham Young's wives to the looks of Russian women was totally uncalled for. Rich should apologize to Russian women everywhere. There is no room for humor on the Internet.

Posted by: jaiotu | 2011.02.14 at 06:44 PM "

First off, you're making light of White's constant attacks on anyone he disagrees with, even in the most personal and hateful of ways.

I have a sense of humor, but this is about a bigger issue. Specifically, that those in the James White cult will defend EVERYTHING He does. No scripture constrains they are he, and who is anyone else to tell them what the bible says about how we should act? They are the only ones with the right theology!

Like I said, this is a mindset you see in a lot of Catholics..."we wrote the bible, who are you to tell us what it says?" Conveniently, that's how they avoid accountability.

Drpenn

Does James White ever come up with any of his own slanderous statements about others; or does he just write down what others say about him to use at a later date against his foes?

I wonder if we ALL have nicknames? Cool. Lumpy? LOL. Sweet.

D.

jaiotu

@Roy,

How was I "making light of White's constant attacks on anyone he disagrees with?" I was referring to one comment, and one comment only. My comment had a two fold purpose: First, to point out that focusing on the perceived insult toward long dead Mormon women ignored the fact that if there were any real insult, it was toward Russian women who were being presented in the joke as being the measure of homeliness. Second was to point out that it was a joke. In poor taste yes.

I'm glad that I've been in this conversation because it is causing me to rethink why I'm willing to give a pass toward a joke about women's appearances to begin with... weighing in the balance the real need for people to lighten up a bit against the need by those in the public ministry to not add offense to the preaching of the Cross, which the world takes as an offense in itself.

Quartermaster

I quit reading and listening to James White Over 5 years ago when I still lived in Ohio. He is quite tendentious. At times his language is violent against those he disagrees with (this is not limited to White either. Read R.C. Sproul when you get a chance).

Not long before I quit reading on his website he had a transcript posted of a debate between himself and a Mormon. He lost the debate. Soundly. I sent an email to the site pointing out his poor forensics and showing why he lost. The next day it was as though the debate never took place. He nuked the entire thing.

White is a good debater, when he can set the conditions. When he can't, or he blunders and doesn't draw them tight enough to suit his knowledge and abilities, then he gets trounced. While I do not agree theologically with David Cloud, he has demonstrated the correct attitude to have towards contentious men like James White - he refuses debate.

I have actually read John Calvin's "Institutes." Frankly, there is some good stuff in there, but there is some absolutely horrific stuff as well. IN my opinion, Calvin's predestinarian soteriology is utterly unbiblical and insulting to the God who sent His son into the world to die and make provision for the forgiveness of sin. However, anyone that disagrees with it is called a "Pelagian" by the likes of people like White and Sproul. It is their doctrines that are abberant, and I wear their label as a badge of honor. Particlularly so since Pelagius didn't teach Pelagianism.

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