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Nov 16, 2006

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Christopher Redman

Peter,

You have an amazing consistency of posting articles side by side with Tom Ascol.

Same or similar theme/subject
Opposing positions (mostly)

Is this purposeful?

peter

Chris,

Thanks always for stopping by Chris. From your comment, my Brother, it must be that Dr. Ascol has referenced the Index article too. Not surprising. It's very good. Surely, though I do not at all see how we could have disagreed on it since I did not take a position.

Actually, however, I have not clicked on his site today. So, for sure, it is coincidental (I feel so strange using that word to a Calvinist:) if he did reference it. I'll be sure and check.

I am surprised though that you feel my posts possess a pattern along with his. From what I know of Dr. Ascol, he does not get into penning "sad" stories in attempting to illustrate theological assertions, like my failed attempt with Wanda. Nor have I observed him interviewing an Arminian Theologian, reviewing a book on religious beliefs of Conservatives or writing a favorable piece for our Pentecostal family.

At any rate, while I admire Dr. Ascol very much--and I do not at all say that tongue n cheek--my posting goals do not revolve around what Founders' posts.

I trust you have a wonderful evening, my Brother Chris. With that, I am...

Peter

Christopher Redman

It's probably just coincindental for when I come by and what happens to be posted at the time -Vines, Harris, and now plagerism.

Chris

SelahV

Chris, I was beginning to wonder about you. I've been by your site and hadn't seen anything new so I stopped visiting. Maybe you have posted in the last week, though. I figured you must have been busy with finals or something. Speaking of coincidence, I wrote a thing on revivals and II Chronicles 7:14 and then went visiting some sites and found others writing about the same thing: revivals, II Chronicles 7:14, pastors who had preached on it. And I wondered the same thing you did. Do bloggers getting inspired to write by other bloggers? Who knows? I definitely get inspired to write by people's questions and sometimes their comments. Does anybody know who it was that said "no one has ever had an original thought"? C'mon Timotheos, I bet you know. PETER: Thanks for posting that article on Plagiarism by the Christian Index. I wrote the author of the piece and he's gonna use my letter in the next edition. I'm giddy. LOL. Also, CHRIS...I don't even go to Ascol's anymore. They are way above my head. I like it over here where Peter puts one view out and all the nice Calvinists come over and chat about it. Blessings to you and hope finals go well. They have to be coming up soon. Happy Turkey Day Everyone! Come by and visit my sites sometime. SelahV

SelahV

Is Timothy George the same one who is married to Denise George? SelahV

peter

SelahV,

Trust you had a great night. Did B-Boy cook you eggs and sausage this A.M.?

I think you are correct--Denise is Dr. George's wife's name.

By the way, how cool on the letter to Mr. Westbury. The Index is a bi-weekly paper for GA Baptists published by the GBC.

Have a great morning. With that, I am...

Peter

SelahV

Well, nifty on the letter. I met Denise George in a writing class in Louisville. The assistant editor, James Cox, of the Western Recorder at the time was our teacher. It was Mr. Cox who asked me to be a stringer for the Recorder way back when. Denise has published a lot of articles and a few books. Mostly uplifting stuff. I look forward to Timothy's paper.
No sausage and eggs today. Too much cholesterol. I made hubby oatmeal. What did you make Kathy? (besides a good husband). selahV

scott

Peter,

I would hope that every preacher uses outside sources in sermon preparation: Lexicons, commentaries, etc. It isn’t necessary to attribute these sources in the sermon unless they are quoted verbatim. I suppose the same rules apply here as when writing a research paper. My primary concern is with the other end of the spectrum, preaching someone else’s message with few changes.

Scripture requires an elder to be apt to teach. In my opinion the elder/pastor who proclaims the gospel on a regular basis should also have the gift of teaching. I have a hard time reconciling these requirements with preaching someone else’s message.

A further difficulty I find is the overly pragmatic approach some take – the ends justify the means. I realize that I am over generalizing here and that the article presented a broad spectrum of using outside sources, but again I am looking just at the one extreme. I believe the process of sermon preparation is of great importance. A pastor needs to invest many hours each week in the study of God’s word, including sermon preparation. This involves emptying himself while praying over the text and for his flock, and filling himself with the text through reading and studying. It is through this disciplined process that the inspired words of God through the ministry of the Holy Spirit engulf and capture the preacher. He connects the text to his flock, not someone else’s flock. Furthermore, I want to see how the message he preaches is lived in his life. I have a hard time seeing how this any of this happens when he is reading someone else’s sermon. If I want to hear Rick Warren, Adrian Rodgers, Charles Stanley, or John MacArthur I can buy one of their books or download a message from the internet. Finally, I am suspicious that if I was delivering someone else’s message (even if I changed it a little for my audience), that my focus would shift from the message to the delivery and presentation. Of course, these things are important, but an actor can do that much better than I.

I suspect some preach other’s sermons because they are lazy, but I hope that is not the primary reason. Perhaps too many pastors are overworked, bi-vocational, required to preach thrice weekly, or inadequately trained. There is one other possible explanation, and I don’t think we can quickly dismiss it. Some feel the pressure of competing with the exceptional preachers we all know and hear. With the internet, syndicated radio, and cable television many churchgoers have been exposed to the gifted oratory skills of Swindoll, Begg, or Rodgers. They have also grown up in an entertainment driven world. It is not surprising that some would expect their own pastor to measure up to these exceptional speakers. Or, maybe the pastor sees these “giants” of the faith and pressures himself to sound like them.

Scott

SelahV

Whew, Scott. That's some pretty thoughtful stuff. A sermon in itself. I particularly like how you viewed a pastor who studies and prays each week: "He connects the text to his flock, not someone else’s flock. Furthermore, I want to see how the message he preaches is lived in his life."

It is just that kind of preacher the pewsitters are so hungry to hear from. Give me a humbled, broken man with stammering words, improper English, and a twang untamed to any polished actor who serves up someone's leftovers with mold on them.

I realize most preachers have their sugar-stick, and God can indeed use the used. But hot fresh bread is so much more appetizing and digestable than store-bought slices gone stale upon some grocer's shelves. Thanks for your thoughts, Scott. SelahV

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